Explain NECA pricing to me?

[Whale Rage Forever]

I buckled down and purchased the 2023-2024 NECA MLU. For the most part I'm pretty sure I understand it but there are a few discrepancies.

Is this intended just to derive the labor time? The labor units seem to be pretty spot on. I made up a few jobs to determine the labor time and it always came out roughly to what I would expect for the time to take.

I ask because I don't see how the NECA MLU could be used to determine materials cost. Is material cost still just a matter of actual cost+tax+markup?

Examples of neca pricing online are FEW and FAR BETWEEN. The only example I could really find was here:

https://www.lorisweb.com/CMGT235/DIS22/PPT22_Electrical%20Material.pdf

and their numbers made no sense to me.

As far as I can tell, if I wanted to use the NECA MLU, it seems like I would still have to compile the cost of materials and then use the neca time estimation multiplied by my hourly rate. Given that the biggest time sink in estimating for me is determining the current cost of materials, this doesn't ultimately save me much time in the estimating process.

Does anyone have a resource or advice for gaining a more in depth understanding of the intended/common usage of the NECA MLU?

 

[ramsy]

Is material cost still just a matter of actual cost+tax+markup?

Since all 3 of those vary greatly, it was my understanding each contractor builds their own BOM.

 

[mtnelect]

I subscribe to "Trade Service Publications" monthly updates to stay on top of the pricing at the wholesale level. Then use that information to globally update my "Flat Rate Price Book" that I have created in "QuickBooks". No labor & material charges just specific packages to charge.

 

[Fred B]

As far as I can tell, if I wanted to use the NECA MLU, it seems like I would still have to compile the cost of materials and then use the neca time estimation multiplied by my hourly rate. Given that the biggest time sink in estimating for me is determining the current cost of materials, this doesn't ultimately save me much time in the estimating process.

The NECA MLU is just another step toward getting a total estimate. First is once you have your list of materials and qty that then transfers to the NECA labor calc as each item has a per unit value of labor time. I have spread sheet that takes each item then adds item cost per unit and a Labor unity per item unit together for a total estimate per item that then gets totaled together.
One shortcoming of the NECA MLU is when innovative new products are being called for the manual may not have a listed labor unit for the specific product. That is where having hands on the product and experience dealing with it would get you closest to actual time it would take to install. The estimator would be well served by talking to the installer to get input for time needed for such product.

Does anyone have a resource or advice for gaining a more in depth understanding of the intended/common usage of the NECA MLU?

I will lots of time limit my use to unfamiliar tasks that haven't done often enough to have a good feel on time use for installation. Also useful as a comparative analysis of actual time and industry standard time in evaluating my workers efficiency or how close to my actual labor time is to industry standard.

Word of caution in using the NECA MLU is you must account for every fitting, screw, device, hole, etc., or you will be getting an estimate way short and loosing money. Ex: running EMT you will have clamping, supports, couplers, connectors, and bending that all have separate time units. So 200ft of EMT is likely not just one LU but many components LU's, every bend, offset, connector, clamp needs to be added together to get a total labor price for 200ft of EMT.

 

[NoahsArc]

I haven't used NECA exactly, just a proprietary-but-close set (and currently a cheap book that's probably in the same ballpark).
I've heard many people say NECA numbers are a bit overcooked by about 25%. If you figure they include material handling, maybe they're fine then.
As @Fred B says, you must include everything.
The best way to handle that is to create assemblies of common installs and use that.
These assemblies can get quite specific based on means of support and location.
eg. [size] EMT run in [rack, off rods, off beam clamps, in metal studs, in wood studs, through wood joists, in concrete, in ground, etc] with [ss | comp] fittings. There's dozens of combinations right there, just for one trade size of one type of raceway. We haven't even gotten into what's inside the pipe yet...
And you need to build all those.

So a 1" EMT run off rods in a 12-15ft pan ceiling with ss fittings is something like (using my book) per ft:

0.04 - 1ft 1" EMT
0.006 - (1) coupling (I'm going with 1/7th the standard rate for all this, which is local quirk)
0.008 - (1) batwing & rod & Z clip & shot [guessing at a number here]

And then at box points you have:
0.14 - (2) 1" connectors
0.15 - (1) 11B deep
0.17 - (3) batwing & rod & Z clip & shot

And then add in wire you're pulling through, plus applicable terminations and devices at the jboxes.
And don't forget difficulty modifiers, and any and every other modifier you can imagine, there are many. If you're on scissors lifts or tall ladders, you have to add so many % to the entire run. Something like 25-50%

You can also do some aspects simply, eg, a "fixture assembly" within an office that includes relevant 1/2" EMT or MC. If you know that in a given installation that every troffer will have say 4ft on average of MC, and 1/3rd of a 1900 box, you can average that out and save yourself a lot of trouble estimating the entire complexity of each room.

Again, software handles that for you, just click an assembly, click on the uploaded prints, it's very nice to have for larger jobs. Overkill for smaller.

Something like that. I don't know what a one month subscription would be, but maybe it's worth it just to copy all their assemblies down and not reinvent the wheel. Their numbers are probably a bit more accurate than NECA's anyway, which are used more often in my experience for T&M change orders (as they're overcooked)

(my experience with estimating courses is that you're far better off just getting a software package and learning its ropes for a few weeks, then transferring that to your own spreadsheet system if you don't want to keep up a subscription)