That's like asking if it would be ok to drive a vehicle without insurance.
its probably not ok but I doubt the people that do such a thing would call you for your opinion.
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Exterior receptacle is it legal
- Thread starter JFLOAT
- Start date
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That's like asking if it would be ok to drive a vehicle without insurance.
its probably not ok but I doubt the people that do such a thing would call you for your opinion.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Above I said that this should have been handled at plans review.
I also said that I hoped that the contractor would have shown some opening, on the plans, so I could have approved it or have a meeting of the minds as to what is reasonable.
"By special permission, the authority having jurisdiction may waive specific requirements in this Code or permit
alternative methods where it is assured that equivalent objectives can be achieved by establishing and maintaining
effective safety."
This is clearly a judgment call. Someone looked at this and decided to say the 'h' with it and continue siding.
if the siding guys were in violation, then there would have to be some type of set distance that the blocking had to be all the way around the receptacle.
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
Proposed objective standard:
1. Far enough back that the cover can be removed, and
2. Far enough back that the device can be removed and replaced using only standard tools.
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1. Far enough back that the cover can be removed, and
2. Far enough back that the device can be removed and replaced using only standard tools.
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- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
So what size opening would be needed for you to have approved it?
Or should we continue to forever send drawings for plan review and have them rejected without explanation. I don't think a simple 'not big enough, try again' is much different of an answer than 'I don't like it'.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
It is a modification. SO the contractor should offer a solution that meets the intent of the code. Now if the AHJ just summarily dismisses it then he is wrong.
Now it is not in the NEC, if this was a residential application/install the AHJ is REQUIRED to look at the following:
http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/st/oh/st/b4v06/st_oh_st_b4v06_1_sec001.htm?bu=OH-P-2011-000004
101.3 Intent.
The purpose of this code is to establish uniform requirements for the erection, construction, repair, alteration, and maintenance of residential buildings, including construction of industrialized units. Such requirements shall relate to the conservation of energy, safety and sanitation of buildings for their intended use and occupancy with consideration for the following:
1. Performance. Establish such requirements, in terms of performance objectives for the use intended. Further, the rules shall consider the following:
1.1. The impact that the state residential building code may have upon the health, safety and welfare of the public;
1.2. The economic reasonableness of the residential building code;
1.3. The technical feasibility of the residential building code; and
1.4. The financial impact that the residential building code may have on the public?s ability to purchase affordable housing.
Please notice how quickly the code addresses what I call common sense!
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Oddly enough I didnt like the looks of that sunken receptacle either when I first saw the picture of it and still dont.
it would be a PITA to work on and I would cuss whoever did it the whole time I was trying to repair it, saying what goof ball would let this happen, where the common sense?
The problem I see is that determining the size of the opening that is needed is left open to suggestion and thats where the wheels start falling off. Some might think its fine as it is because the opening is not defined and in the same breath others would think it rediculously boxed in in such a small blockout.
Problem I see is its hard to fail someone on something that is not specifically defined. Which in this case the clearances are not therefore it would just be your argument against the others.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
Then take the time and give us the size.
Absolutely, if an installation does not meet applicable codes, then the available legal and civil remedies should be applied.
However, along with the fines and forfeitures, the problem needs to be fixed.
So again,
How big do you say the opening has to be?
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
mjf
Senior Member
OK, I've decided to put an end to the "how big does the box have to be" question.
After careful (30 seconds) consideration I've decided that the access is to be determined by the depth of the box.
If the front of the electrical box is recessed 3" deep, then 3" is required from all 4 edges of the electrical box.
If the front of the electrical box is recessed 22" deep, then 22" is required from all 4 edges of the electrical box.
Any objections......:angel:
After careful (30 seconds) consideration I've decided that the access is to be determined by the depth of the box.
If the front of the electrical box is recessed 3" deep, then 3" is required from all 4 edges of the electrical box.
If the front of the electrical box is recessed 22" deep, then 22" is required from all 4 edges of the electrical box.
Any objections......:angel:
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
They actually require plans review for installing new siding? Hope they don't want a plans review if you are only painting the siding.
The receptacle in question here should already meet condition 1, and may already meet condition 2, we really can't tell condition 2 just from looking at the photo.
or 100+ posts?
On an opening the size we have here just an extra 1/2 inch on all sides makes a pretty big difference on how easy that becomes to work on, then you could possibly taper the sides of the opening and gain even easier access.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
The owner can say "we don't use that", you as inspector however can tell them how they are not going to abandon it in that way.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
At same time they are usually not recessed into the wall they are mounted on. But if they would be inside an appliance garage, they may actually be more difficult to replace than the one in the OP.Yes,
Counter top receptacles rarely have 22" clearance from all 4" edges. It looks like we need an exception.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
Now you are getting into the definition of recessed.
Why couldn't you call receptacles in the back of cabinets (e.g. under a kitchen sink) as recessed? How different are they from the ones in the siding?
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
- Status