Failed inspection "communications not grounded"

gene6 said:
We did sleeve the #6 ground wire in PVC so it would not get stolen. There is no access to it.
I did ask for a code reference, I am sure I'll get a email but they are slow, the inspector said the communications utilities bond tie on to accessible grounded parts and since we removed those parts we are required to re-bond those utilities. I ask about the gas meter and he said no just 'communications' .
Just wanting to get some pointers on the code.
Click to expand...
Your obligation ends with the installation of an intersystem bonding Termination.
GEC bonding bridge bridgeport 3.jpg
Since this is designed for installation in a conduit run you only need to use a male thread adapter on your PVC conduit end to keep the protection of your Grounding Electrode Conductor (GEC) continuous. Install this in the run of PVC conduit which protects your EGC and the center screw will bond the GEC to the 6 grounding terminals. Insert the bonding conductors that you disconnected into the ports and tighten the green screw to spec taken from the installation instructions.

Tom Horne
 
kwired said:
Note: those only work with a maximum of 4 AWG for the conductor that runs through it, and if you were using an insulated conductor for whatever reason it won't fit without stripping off insulation.
Click to expand...
Green is not a code compliant color for a Grounding Electrode Conductor because the US NEC forbids the use of the color green for anything other than Equipment Grounding Conductors. You can use any color except white, grey, or green. The customary practice is to use a bare conductor. Most inspectors will not bother you about this but using green for the GEC is a violation of
250.119 Identification of Equipment Grounding Conductors.
Unless required elsewhere in this Code, equipment grounding
conductors shall be permitted to be bare, covered, or insulated.
Individually covered or insulated equipment grounding
conductors shall have a continuous outer finish that is either
green or green with one or more yellow stripes except as
permitted in this section. Conductors with insulation or individual
covering that is green, green with one or more yellow
stripes, or otherwise identified as permitted by this section shall
not be used for ungrounded or grounded circuit conductors.

Tom Horne
 
hornetd said:
Green is not a code compliant color for a Grounding Electrode Conductor because the US NEC forbids the use of the color green for anything other than Equipment Grounding Conductors. ...
Click to expand...

Lol of course green is okay for a GEC.

...Conductors with insulation or individual
covering that is green, green with one or more yellow
stripes, or otherwise identified as permitted by this section shall
not be used for ungrounded or grounded circuit conductors.
Click to expand...

A GEC is not one of those prohibited conductors.
 
hornetd said:
Green is not a code compliant color for a Grounding Electrode Conductor because the US NEC forbids the use of the color green for anything other than Equipment Grounding Conductors.

Tom Horne
Click to expand...
That changed in the 2005 cycle, up till then the wording did pretty much forbid it for the GEC
 
roger said:
That changed in the 2005 cycle, up till then the wording did pretty much forbid it for the GEC
Click to expand...
Thank you. It's about flippin time! I never got called on it but I was on crews were the foreman was ordered to change it. What a bloomin waste of time.
 
hornetd said:
Your obligation ends with the installation of an intersystem bonding Termination.
Click to expand...
Well not so fast, the thing is the telco/cable/coms utility had clamped their little ground's all over the old service equipment that we removed, so in their opinion (and the inspectors) we touched it we removed it, we deal with it.
I just did not know it was a NEC code requirement for someone to do so.
The ground straps could not re-attach the same way, so we just left them hanging in the wind, my bad.
The inspectors feel that even if there is not service a hazard exists due to the parallel path of existing coax and the neutral to the pole, and I wont say completely understand why its an issue if there is no active phone or cable service.

Not to mention the main issue was communications utility has a ground rod on the other side of the building we ignored (and the inspector happens to park there) . As Ben pointed out article 250 dot something requires all electrodes present to be bonded together so we had to run a #6 to that.

My PM was trying to call the coms utilities (Verizon Charter et al) and you simply cannot get anywhere fast without an 'account', and one of the stores was vacant so there is no account so we just had to do it to get er done.

All the best
Gene
 
hornetd said:
Green is not a code compliant color for a Grounding Electrode Conductor because the US NEC forbids the use of the color green for anything other than Equipment Grounding Conductors. You can use any color except white, grey, or green. The customary practice is to use a bare conductor. Most inspectors will not bother you about this but using green for the GEC is a violation of
250.119 Identification of Equipment Grounding Conductors.
Unless required elsewhere in this Code, equipment grounding
conductors shall be permitted to be bare, covered, or insulated.
Individually covered or insulated equipment grounding
conductors shall have a continuous outer finish that is either
green or green with one or more yellow stripes except as
permitted in this section. Conductors with insulation or individual
covering that is green, green with one or more yellow
stripes, or otherwise identified as permitted by this section shall
not be used for ungrounded or grounded circuit conductors.

Tom Horne
Click to expand...
I'm well aware of that.

Think you can convince a few inspectors? I've had some that insist I must mark a (non bare or non green) GEC with green coloring. I've told them NEC has no color requirement for GEC's but they were not interested in hearing it.
 
gene6 said:
Well not so fast, the thing is the telco/cable/coms utility had clamped their little ground's all over the old service equipment that we removed, so in their opinion (and the inspectors) we touched it we removed it, we deal with it.
I just did not know it was a NEC code requirement for someone to do so.
The ground straps could not re-attach the same way, so we just left them hanging in the wind, my bad.
The inspectors feel that even if there is not service a hazard exists due to the parallel path of existing coax and the neutral to the pole, and I wont say completely understand why its an issue if there is no active phone or cable service.

Not to mention the main issue was communications utility has a ground rod on the other side of the building we ignored (and the inspector happens to park there) . As Ben pointed out article 250 dot something requires all electrodes present to be bonded together so we had to run a #6 to that.

My PM was trying to call the coms utilities (Verizon Charter et al) and you simply cannot get anywhere fast without an 'account', and one of the stores was vacant so there is no account so we just had to do it to get er done.

All the best
Gene
Click to expand...
If they just suspend service via software means vs physically disconnecting the cable, you still have same paths on cable or it's shield

Which is how such services are typically interrupted for non payment, cancellation, etc. They just block your address on the system, which with the way things are so interconnected these days it is usually called an IP address assigned to your receiving equipment that gets blocked
 
No, the wording prior to 05 strictly limited it to EGC's. You may be thinking about Gray, in earlier cycles it could have been used as an ungrounded conductor, "natural grey" was used when describing a neutral.
 
Grounding requirements for various communications systems are contained in Chapter 8 of the NEC. Maybe not something the electricians often deal with, but if the inspector want it done "to Code" they can point to Chapter 8. Maybe time to call in the low voltage guys and let them deal with it.
 
roger said:
No, the wording prior to 05 strictly limited it to EGC's. You may be thinking about Gray, in earlier cycles it could have been used as an ungrounded conductor, "natural grey" was used when describing a neutral.
Click to expand...
No, prior to the 2005 there was no rule that prohibited using a green insulated conductor as an ungrounded conductor. The 2005 was the first time the following language appeared in the code.
Conductors with insulation or individual covering that is green, green with one or more yellow stripes, or otherwise identified as permitted by this section shall not be used for ungrounded or grounded circuit conductors.
Click to expand...
While many read the requirements to identify the EGC with the color green as a prohibition on using the green color for ungrounded conductors, the code did not actually say that.
Report on Proposals – May 2004 NFPA 70
5-220 Log #2679 NEC-P05
(250-119)
Final Action: Accept
Submitter: Phil Simmons, Simmons Electrical Services
Recommendation:
Revise existing Section 250.119 as follows:
250.119 Identification of Equipment Grounding Conductors.
Unless required elsewhere in this Code, equipment grounding conductors shall be permitted to be bare, covered, or insulated.
Individually covered or insulated equipment grounding conductors shall have a continuous outer finish that is either green or green
with one or more yellow stripes except as permitted in this section. Conductors with insulation that is green, green with one or more
yellow stripes, or identified as permitted by this section shall be used only as an equipment grounding conductor.
Substantiation:
The Code has long required that insulated conductors used as an equipment be identified green or green with one or more yellow
stripes. However, Article 250 has not gone the next step to limit the use of conductors so identified as equipment grounding
conductors.
It is reported by electrical inspectors that some are using conductors with green insulation as ungrounded (hot) conductors by phase
taping the insulation. It is also reported that the phase tape has come off the conductor insulation. When this happens, a conductor with
green insulation has a potential above ground and represents a shock or flash hazard to electricians.
Conductor insulations of other than green color are readily available so there should not be a reason to phase tape green insulation and
use it as an ungrounded or grounded conductor.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top