Failed my inspection today…

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Buck Parrish said:
The outlets in the exhibit are in the same location in the 2020 NEC Handbook. But the counter is a bit three dimensional and has a brown or wood looking floor.
Just thought I'd throw that out there. I had to look for the cover to it to make sure it's the 2020 book. Having no cover should've been enough to convince me. :censored:
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You should be able to tell by the content of the book if it's the 2020 or not. Cover is not needed. But I guess some people look at the content differently. Me, I found it at the bottom of the page right away.
 
Buck Parrish said:
Good catch - the 2020 does have a G beside the fridge outlet. That's the only difference I've noticed, thus far
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Why would the 2020 require the kitchen fridge to be GFCI protected? Have I missed something in my research? It would only be GFCI protected if it's taken off the SABC.
 
Jerramundi said:
Why would the 2020 require the kitchen fridge to be GFCI protected? Have I missed something in my research? It would only be GFCI protected if it's taken off the SABC.
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Because it is with 6' of a sink. Whether it is on an individual branch circuit or the SABC is not relevant.
 
texie said:
Because it is with 6' of a sink. Whether it is on an individual branch circuit or the SABC is not relevant.
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But that's not something new to 2020... GFCI protection requirements were expanded, but as far as the kitchen is concerned, it's still limited to receptacles that serve the countertops as far as I'm aware.
 
Jerramundi said:
Are you implying that the Handbook (i.e. NECH) LACKS information that the NEC contains? Because that would be a pretty messed up thing to do to people who are trying to understand the code.
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The NECH as you know includes the exact text of the NEC which is legally enforceable. The commentary is just that and just the authors opinion and is not to be considered part of the code or enforceable.
 
Jerramundi said:
Well the receptacle to the left of the sink would prove the inspector wrong. I don't see how that could be misinterpreted.

Unless you're saying he misunderstood the receptacles by the stove in the exhibit that show a 2ft spacing and thought that meant a minimum, whereas it's actually a maximum.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's common knowledge that most countertop appliances feature a 2ft cord and that's the reason for this requirement... so that an appliance placed anywhere on countertop can reach a receptacle. At least, that's how it was explained to me way, way back in the day.
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That is a common explanation and does seem logical, don't know if that is actually why or not. Would have to find copies of proposals and comments from the CMP way back whenever this rule was added to really know what might been behind it.
 
roger said:
The illustration is commentary, no need to read any further.
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It is no more or less relevant than an explanation on this forum, by Mike Holt himself, IAIEI or any other professional person/organization that creates similar material. Most of them will have similar explanations on most content, but none of them are official representatives of NFPA. They are just saying it, drawing it, etc. the way they interpret things.
 
Jerramundi said:
But that's not something new to 2020... GFCI protection requirements were expanded, but as far as the kitchen is concerned, it's still limited to receptacles that serve the countertops as far as I'm aware.
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2011 specifically said in areas other than kitchens in the part that mentioned 6 feet from sinks.

2014 took that wording out and within 6 feet of all sinks has been the rule since.

Receptacle serving any kitchen counter top been required to be GFCI protected since I believe 1996
 
kwired said:
2011 specifically said in areas other than kitchens in the part that mentioned 6 feet from sinks.

2014 took that wording out and within 6 feet of all sinks has been the rule since.

Receptacle serving any kitchen counter top been required to be GFCI protected since I believe 1996
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Edit time expired: since 2014 any receptacle within any sink been required to be GFCI protected.
 
kwired said:
2011 specifically said in areas other than kitchens in the part that mentioned 6 feet from sinks.

2014 took that wording out and within 6 feet of all sinks has been the rule since.

Receptacle serving any kitchen counter top been required to be GFCI protected since I believe 1996
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Roger that. I was merely responding to @Buck Parrish who claimed the 2020 added a G besides the fridge outlet and questioning what in the 2020 would have prompted that change.

Makes you wonder if the authors of the NEC missed this in the 2014. Should the aforementioned exhibit have had a G besides the fridge outlet because of the 6 foot rule in the 2014? Because it's not in my copy of the '14. But it's just commentary right, so doesn't matter if they got it wrong? lol

Message received: You're born alone and you die alone, clutching the NEC in your coffin, lol. (duude, that was dark)
 
"Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's common knowledge that most countertop appliances feature a 2ft cord and that's the reason for this requirement... so that an appliance placed anywhere on countertop can reach a receptacle."

The 2' comment is used a lot and may be a minimum. Need to find comment from UL on that.
Some info.
A Slower cooker 3'
The eating lable picture is an um moment since it's allowed per NEC
 

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Jerramundi said:
Roger that. I was merely responding to @Buck Parrish who claimed the 2020 added a G besides the fridge outlet and questioning what in the 2020 would have prompted that change.

Makes you wonder if the authors of the NEC missed this in the 2014. Should the aforementioned exhibit have had a G besides the fridge outlet because of the 6 foot rule in the 2014? Because it's not in my copy of the '14. But it's just commentary right, so doesn't matter if they got it wrong? lol

Message received: You're born alone and you die alone, clutching the NEC in your coffin, lol. (duude, that was dark)
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The "G" somewhat irrelevant if the commentary is about receptacle placement, but yes nothing wrong with making that right within content intended to illustrate other aspects.
 
Fred B said:
Might I suggest that for the 24" thing kind of reverse things and ask his explanation of the 210.52(C)(1) requirement. And not be being disrespectful but say you want to learn. Kind of K.A. but gets away from butting heads, and feeding his EGO.
AFA the SER cable touching the concrete, only thing I could think of that would be a issue is if you were unable to secure the cable within 12" of entry to the box, 230.51(A)
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Agreed. The SER comes down the wall and is secured about 12” from the panel.


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So, I guess you can't use SE or SER outside if the house is brick, stone or concrete..........................

I would give him a little bit of a hard time, just to let him know you do know the code. But I wouldn't start a big ordeal over it.

I had a friend who was an inspector. His pet peeve was electricians calling him wanting him to tell them how to do the job because they wouldn't even attempt to use the code book. He didn't mind a few questions. But many asked him stuff they should have known.
 
Eddie702 said:
I had a friend who was an inspector. His pet peeve was electricians calling him wanting him to tell them how to do the job because they wouldn't even attempt to use the code book. He didn't mind a few questions. But many asked him stuff they should have known.
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Bills to pay my friend. Bills to pay. Unfortunately.

I'm all for using the code book, but let's not ignore the reality of financial pressures. Sometimes it's faster to jump on this forum or call the AHJ, as opposed to spending a day or two riffling through the code book.

People, especially customers, don't like to wait. As customers, and I include myself in that demographic, no one likes to wait. If kept waiting, something must be wrong. We're spoiled rotten in this country. Keep someone waiting at the drive-thru for more than 15 minutes and you risk a riot breaking out, lol. And things like HGTV don't help when they make it look like moving a toilet from one side of the room to the other only requires you own an iPad, lol.
 
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