File for a code variance?

Status
Not open for further replies.
stickboy1375

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
Has anyone ever filed for a code variance on a job before?

Here is the situation, kitchen counter with 9' of window almost on top of the counter, a 3' sink is dead center of the window, so that leaves 3' of window on each side of the sink, so there is no room for a receptacle within 2' of the sink.

The architect and/or my boss decide to just file for a code variance, now the thing that really bothers me is (1) why not just raise the window, or (2) there is room for plug mold, (the architect would never go for that..) I don't know the final verdict yet, but I guess people with money just get what they want...
 
Allowing this creates the hazard the 2 foot rule was made to protect us from (cords).It still is up to ahj.Personally i would reject it.Permit it once and everyone will start doing it.
 
So there will be a recptacle at just over 3 feet from the sink vs 2 feet. Is this really that big of a deal? I don't think so.
 
stickboy1375 said:
Depends on who you ask... ;)
Click to expand...

I have pancaked plugmold between 2 piece of back splash. It look pretty good.

I have also put the outlet in the from of the cabinet where they had to have a blank area for the recep. Technically that isn't legal unless it is an island or peninsula, art. 210.52(C)(5) except, but it passed and I was comfortable with it. It is better than not having one.

On the other note, the architects should not be allowed to rule the NEC. It really irks me when they say it won't look good. Tough. They are the designs so design it to be code compliant.
 
It is the responsibility of the installer to discuss this with the designer/architect to come up with a resolve. I see this type of situation at least once a month.
Between this type of situation and islands, inspecting kitchens can become hazardous to an inspectors life. :grin:

I will not furnish a final inspection until the required receptacles are installed.
I hope that the situation for the OP is during the roughing, and not at the final inspection.
 
stickboy1375 said:
Has anyone ever filed for a code variance on a job before?

Here is the situation, kitchen counter with 9' of window almost on top of the counter, a 3' sink is dead center of the window, so that leaves 3' of window on each side of the sink, so there is no room for a receptacle within 2' of the sink.

The architect and/or my boss decide to just file for a code variance, now the thing that really bothers me is (1) why not just raise the window, or (2) there is room for plug mold, (the architect would never go for that..) I don't know the final verdict yet, but I guess people with money just get what they want...
Click to expand...

In New York State, the AHJ does not have the power to waive the provisions of standards referenced from the family of Building Codes including the NEC. For this problem you noted above to be resolved, it is necessary to apply for a variance from one of the Department of State Codes Division Variance Boards of Review. A variance can only be issued within very tight guidelines. For example, historical preservation; a change so slight; economic hardship; alternative method that meets the original intent, etc. This would be very hard to obtain thru my Board. I serve as the Chair of the Albany BOR. I operate under the premise that "lack of planning on your part does not create an emergency or special conditions on my part". :smile:
 
wbalsam1 said:
alternative method that meets the original intent, etc. This would be very hard to obtain thru my Board. I serve as the Chair of the Albany BOR. I operate under the premise that "lack of planning on your part does not create an emergency or special conditions on my part". :smile:
Click to expand...

Wouldn't you consider a 600 sq. ft designer kitchen, with over 50 linear feet of countertop space, including dedicated "prep areas" for every typical, plus a few not so typical appliances, loaded with dedicated 20a SABC's as "meeting the original intent?"

Within 2' of the sink... based on the fact that many HOs pile their appliances there. (So much so, that when NYC had it's own code, each outlet flanking the sink was NOT permitted to be on the same SABC.)

I don't think the 9' window constitutes a "lack of planning." I think the HO and the designer WANT that 9' window - and I don't think the code requiring a receptacle within 2' of the sink should mean that the design has to be scrapped, or the HO can't have their window, because it would block a required outlet.

Suppose, 3'6" from each side of the sink there are 2 double duplexes. Is that really so "dangerous" in your mind that you wouldn't consider a variance?
 
I have a very similar situation , while the inspector was inspecting the bath rough , the kitchen plan is not final so no wiring yet ,he noticed the issue at the sink counter and said he will not tag me even though the outlets will be 3' from the edge of the sink when mounted on the next available stud.

The problem with that is ,.. he isn't the one who has the liability ,I am . To make matters worse the H.O. heard this , so do I draw my line in the sand and potentially lose this job?? Nope, I will live with the liability of an installation in violation of the NEC, and feed my kids instead.
This is what eveyone but me seems to want ,..from the Builder to the H.O. to the Inspector.:-?

I wish he had not tried to be so helpful ,.. damned if they do damned if they don't:roll:
 
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
Wouldn't you consider a 600 sq. ft designer kitchen, with over 50 linear feet of countertop space, including dedicated "prep areas" for every typical, plus a few not so typical appliances, loaded with dedicated 20a SABC's as "meeting the original intent?"
Click to expand...

No. Not if the receptacles were not spaced in accordance with 210.52

LawnGuyLandSparky said:
Within 2' of the sink... based on the fact that many HOs pile their appliances there. (So much so, that when NYC had it's own code, each outlet flanking the sink was NOT permitted to be on the same SABC.)
Click to expand...
Not applicable

LawnGuyLandSparky said:
I don't think the 9' window constitutes a "lack of planning." I think the HO and the designer WANT that 9' window - and I don't think the code requiring a receptacle within 2' of the sink should mean that the design has to be scrapped, or the HO can't have their window, because it would block a required outlet.
Click to expand...

That's why the variance procedure is in effect. Come in, state your case, prove your hardship, tell us how long your leadcords will be...:D ..

LawnGuyLandSparky said:
Suppose, 3'6" from each side of the sink there are 2 double duplexes. Is that really so "dangerous" in your mind that you wouldn't consider a variance?
Click to expand...

See 210.52(C) (1) thru (5).:smile:
 
Well then, may I suggest an avatar for you... :grin:

grinch.jpg
 
A little confusing, since Stickboy asked the original question about the variance, but LawnGuy mentioned the large kitchen with lots of counter space. I don't know what the real situation is, so am going off of LawnGuy's hypothetical:

There is no 'hardship' basis here for getting a variance ... but I do believe that there is an argument for 'meeting the intent of the code'.

If we read the intent of the code as 'making sure that every counter-top appliance is close to a receptacle', then by having lots and lots of counter space with suitable receptacles, with only a small portion not properly served, I think one could argue that the goal of the code is met.

I would not make this decision on my own, but I would be willing to make the argument before a variance board :)

That said, another approach would be to extend the sink, by suitably sloping the counter-top so that the area beside the sink becomes a drain area not suitable for appliances. If the surface is not suitable for resting appliances, then IMHO it is no longer a counter-top :)

-Jon
 
M. D. said:
and feed my kids instead.
:
Click to expand...

What is up with this statement. I hear it all the time.
Is it supposed to garner sympathy from people because it's "For the children"?
The other one is "Taking food out of my kids motuhs" . Oh really am I? :rolleyes:

These are usualy the same guys dropping2 bucks on coffee and 5 bucks on cigarettes everyday. But If I get a job they wanted their kids will go hungry.

Anyway.
Still don't think not having those outlets is a big deal.

Put the book down and think about it with out the NEC clouding your view.

Most people will put their appliances or do their prep where the outlets are rather than run an extension cord, in this case to make up that deadly extra foot, to another location.

The lack of addtional receptacles to use may have beeen a problem in 1940 but these
days there are more then enoguh available.
 
Last edited:
Setting aside rationalizing a variance, I do recall a remarkably similar thread within the past few weeks/months.

The solution was a sort of popup receptacle tower that would be recessed in the counter when not in use. A more sophisticated version of this. Anyone else recall the thread or the product?
 
Here is the problem with the thinking that close is good and how far is too far.

The NEC says the you are required to have the outlets, you know this before hand, nothing says that you need a 9' window that goes all the way to the counter top. So you simply order a window that is 6" shorter and put in a small back splash and problem is solved. In fact you're not even required to have a window in the kitchen.

Once you allow a variance, whether you claim that it's case by case, you are almost setting yourself up for trouble, you gave it to him for no better reason than the customer wanted the window more than they cared about the code. Why would you not then give it to them every time? A variance is usually for material or a hardship waver, neither of which applies in this instance.
 
Tell them to get a wider sink to match the window.
I always love when someone thinks it is up to me to "make it work" because code interferes with thier lack of planning. No matter how many times you go through the code with some people they will not get it until the inspector does what he should and say's "NO". When this comes up I try to make a point to ask the inspector at rough in about what they want. At least at this time it is fixable without tearing out walls.
 
cowboyjwc said:
Here is the problem with the thinking that close is good and how far is too far.

The NEC says the you are required to have the outlets, you know this before hand, nothing says that you need a 9' window that goes all the way to the counter top. So you simply order a window that is 6" shorter and put in a small back splash and problem is solved. In fact you're not even required to have a window in the kitchen.

Once you allow a variance, whether you claim that it's case by case, you are almost setting yourself up for trouble, you gave it to him for no better reason than the customer wanted the window more than they cared about the code. Why would you not then give it to them every time? A variance is usually for material or a hardship waver, neither of which applies in this instance.
Click to expand...

You're forgetting that another valid reason for a waiver is that the intent of the code is met.

WHY does the code require receptacles within 24'' of the sink? Let's face it - most "regular" kitchens, the one side will be blocked by a drainboard. Most "regular" kitchens have a 22" or 44" sink, and perhaps a window IFO it if it's even on an exterior wall. And MOST regular kitchens, if wired to minimum code, are considered by the HOs to not have enough counter space and not have enough receptacles. The spacing rules assure that there will be outlets where the HO is most likely going to want to place appliances.

By locating a 9' window IFO the sink, it is clear this HO does NOT want a toaster or a coffeepot next to the sink, S/he wants the VIEW - hence the lack of a backsplash.

In my own kitchen, I have a single double-hung window IFO the sink. When I renovated I made it wider and lower to see more of the backyard. In hindsight, I should have eliminated the splash in that area and brought it right to countertop height. But, If I had a view of some beautiful mountains, or an ocean view, and I valued that more than the wall cabinets, I would want the window wider, unobscured, and from countertop to ceiling. You can bet "you can't have that because I need a place for a code-required outlet" would not sit well with me. I would find a way around it.
 
I am not sure this is code compliant, but it sure looks clean.
popup_outlet.jpg
[/IMG]
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top