Finished basement
- Thread starter pridelion
- Start date
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peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Finished basement
Yes, space the outlets per NEC, every 12 feet.
Yes, space the outlets per NEC, every 12 feet.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Finished basement
Of course, it all depends on your definition of "finished."
Of course, it all depends on your definition of "finished."
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Finished basement
Why would it be any different than an above ground living area??? 2/6/12 are the requirements
Why would it be any different than an above ground living area??? 2/6/12 are the requirements
Re: Finished basement
It has been my practice to give the customer on opportunity to choose to go beyond the 6/12 requirement. I always remind them of what electrical devices they plan to use an if they will need to use power strips or extension cords because there are not enough outlets. I may suggest a quad or duplexes placed closer together and to place those outlets as close as practical to where they plane to place their equipment.
Also, since those rooms are often used for entertainment where coffee pots, nesco rosters, crock pots may be used, I also suggest (2) 20a circuits and the lighting on a separate 15a circuit.
It's less expensive to do it up front than to go for the minimum requirement and they then conclude "I wish I would have could have." At least I allow them to option.
It has been my practice to give the customer on opportunity to choose to go beyond the 6/12 requirement. I always remind them of what electrical devices they plan to use an if they will need to use power strips or extension cords because there are not enough outlets. I may suggest a quad or duplexes placed closer together and to place those outlets as close as practical to where they plane to place their equipment.
Also, since those rooms are often used for entertainment where coffee pots, nesco rosters, crock pots may be used, I also suggest (2) 20a circuits and the lighting on a separate 15a circuit.
It's less expensive to do it up front than to go for the minimum requirement and they then conclude "I wish I would have could have." At least I allow them to option.
rcarroll
Senior Member
- Location
- Fort Collins, Colorado
Re: Finished basement
I have a debate with a contractor & would like some of your opinions please. He frames, insulates, wires 6/12 spacing, & sheetrocks perimeter walls only. No other framing or rock. I say that the basement is still unfinished & receps. are required to be GFCI protected. Do you agree or not, thanks Ron.
I have a debate with a contractor & would like some of your opinions please. He frames, insulates, wires 6/12 spacing, & sheetrocks perimeter walls only. No other framing or rock. I say that the basement is still unfinished & receps. are required to be GFCI protected. Do you agree or not, thanks Ron.
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: Finished basement
Ron,
I agree with your take, not the contractor's. Until a floor covering goes down, the space is not finished.
Ron,
I agree with your take, not the contractor's. Until a floor covering goes down, the space is not finished.
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Finished basement
I agree with Sam, it is the AHJ's call.
I agree with Sam, it is the AHJ's call.
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: Finished basement
I too agree with the wisdom of Sam and Charlie on the call of is this finished. Having been in this situation before with basements and rooms over garages I have found that the one question that the Inspector always asks was; ?Is this area heated or air conditioned??
I too agree with the wisdom of Sam and Charlie on the call of is this finished. Having been in this situation before with basements and rooms over garages I have found that the one question that the Inspector always asks was; ?Is this area heated or air conditioned??
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: Finished basement
I'd agree. In addition to the Heating and Floor covering arguments above, without a ceiling it sure looks unfinished.
Re: Finished basement
Where are we going with this string? It appears as though the issue has become in the basement has been judged to be finished or not? And, the initial post was outlet spacing and then someone added the issue of GFCI protection.
What we don't know is if the room is being competitively bid or specifications being written so that the electrician's quote provides the least as possible but yet meets the local code requirements. Or, he being contracted directly by the homeowner which the homeowner can dictate if they want the minimum or more. Or, it may determined by the general contractor to do the minimum required because he doesn't want to pay for more.
Putting all of the minimum code requirements aside as a service to the homeowner those minimums should be advised and then the homeowner can be given the option for more.
As I previously posted the cost of a GFCI outlet is minor and installing extra outlets will not greatly inflate the overall cost unless it gets down to the need for rock bottom competitive pricing providing the very minimum.
Where are we going with this string? It appears as though the issue has become in the basement has been judged to be finished or not? And, the initial post was outlet spacing and then someone added the issue of GFCI protection.
What we don't know is if the room is being competitively bid or specifications being written so that the electrician's quote provides the least as possible but yet meets the local code requirements. Or, he being contracted directly by the homeowner which the homeowner can dictate if they want the minimum or more. Or, it may determined by the general contractor to do the minimum required because he doesn't want to pay for more.
Putting all of the minimum code requirements aside as a service to the homeowner those minimums should be advised and then the homeowner can be given the option for more.
As I previously posted the cost of a GFCI outlet is minor and installing extra outlets will not greatly inflate the overall cost unless it gets down to the need for rock bottom competitive pricing providing the very minimum.
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Finished basement
At issue is indeed whether or not it is judged to be finished since the rules change for each. It is sort of like wiring a room and finding that it will become a Class I, Division 1 location. If I just assumed that it was for general use, would I be required to change my wiring methods? You bet you sweet bippy I would have to change.
At issue is indeed whether or not it is judged to be finished since the rules change for each. It is sort of like wiring a room and finding that it will become a Class I, Division 1 location. If I just assumed that it was for general use, would I be required to change my wiring methods? You bet you sweet bippy I would have to change.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: Finished basement
For the original question yes you must go by the spacing rules.
For the original question yes you must go by the spacing rules.
james wuebker
Senior Member
- Location
- Iowa
Re: Finished basement
I can't find anywhere in the code that says the walls has to have a covering on it and the floor covered. Lets stay I have a basement with nice poured cement walls. I paint them and put a few recep. drops in this area in conduit. Put a TV, sofa and a chair. Maybe a throw rug in the middle of the room to make it look better. I believe this way is finished and not GFCI is required. Let say stud walls, recep. in the walls and then I put insulation between the studs and plastic over the insulation. Again throw a TV, sofa,a chair and a throw rug. I'm down in the basement taking a nap now. This is finished and no GFCI is needed. My point is the code needs more direction in this area. If it was me I wouldn't agree to the above items. Does anyone disagree or agree?
Bye now,
Jim
I can't find anywhere in the code that says the walls has to have a covering on it and the floor covered. Lets stay I have a basement with nice poured cement walls. I paint them and put a few recep. drops in this area in conduit. Put a TV, sofa and a chair. Maybe a throw rug in the middle of the room to make it look better. I believe this way is finished and not GFCI is required. Let say stud walls, recep. in the walls and then I put insulation between the studs and plastic over the insulation. Again throw a TV, sofa,a chair and a throw rug. I'm down in the basement taking a nap now. This is finished and no GFCI is needed. My point is the code needs more direction in this area. If it was me I wouldn't agree to the above items. Does anyone disagree or agree?
Bye now,
Jim
physis
Senior Member
Re: Finished basement
I completely agree with at least this point.
I used to have a bedroom in the garage when I was young. I played electric guitar. In bare feet, standing on the slab floor, the strings of the guitar were hot enough to matter, a bunch.
The NEC thinks that cement is a ground. Maybe it is. I don't know if a GFI could stop current on the other side of a guitar amps power supply.
But I think there should be GFI protection whenever the floor is a slab. And I agree that that specific requirement is missing in article 210 and should probably be there.
I completely agree with at least this point.
I used to have a bedroom in the garage when I was young. I played electric guitar. In bare feet, standing on the slab floor, the strings of the guitar were hot enough to matter, a bunch.
The NEC thinks that cement is a ground. Maybe it is. I don't know if a GFI could stop current on the other side of a guitar amps power supply.
But I think there should be GFI protection whenever the floor is a slab. And I agree that that specific requirement is missing in article 210 and should probably be there.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Finished basement
In Florida most of our floors are concrete,are you suggesting we need gfci all thru the house ?
In Florida most of our floors are concrete,are you suggesting we need gfci all thru the house ?
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