Flat rate pricing....Who's actually doing it?

[lbwireman]

Its NOT wrong at all...in fact those are the same things we are striving for. Just completing our first year in business, we have our two trucks (06&04) paid for, as well as, all of our tools,inventory, built a small office whse, sidewalks, carport for the trucks, computer, bla bla.....and we do have medical insurance. For 09' we are focusing on getting back to our 401k contributions and, that years savings your talking about. But the first year has been a bit of a juggling act as we have to be fast learners to survive in this climate.

I think what's true here, is we all have to realize that things can be drasticaly different in the various areas of the country, and we need to respect one anothers particular situations, not being too quick to judge without considering all of the facts....we all have a wondefull trade in which we all have common interest, and a wonderfull forum to help us share it.

Mule,
Congratulations on all in the 1st paragraph! Re: your 2nd paragraph, amen ta all that! I'm CA born an' OK bred, livin' an' workin' in CA since leavin' the Army in the 60's but your post made me downright homesick. Good words.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

I've used flat rate pricing for a few years and have returned to T&M on only one small commercial job. My pricing is set for a small net profit and I've been able to build a shop, pay a respectable salary, buy a new van, and fully fund my retirement. I'll never go back to T&M.

I have a customer that wants to add a power center for a boat. Power center is a 200-amp load about 350' from the panel. How do I do a flat rate quote on this?

This is meant to be a serious question.

 

[Mule]

yet....you continually start threads about rates and who is charging what....reminds me of the scene from Casablanca when the casino is raided and the local official, as he's taking his winnings from the casino says something to the effect of "i'm shocked there is gambling going on in here"

I Invite all to view my " Threads Started" and make your own judgement. Emahler's statement is just destructive in nature and is not true. I didnt look all my threads, but I looked a bunch of them. Found one about Trip Charges, and one about Winter Rates and the Economy....I think Way Back when I first started this forum, I may have asked others rates.....geez give me a break

..Kind of reminds me of two kids playing in a sand box and fighting over toys, instead of a movie though.....

 

[Mule]

I have a customer that wants to add a power center for a boat. Power center is a 200-amp load about 350' from the panel. How do I do a flat rate quote on this?

This is meant to be a serious question.

For me that would not be a job I could flat rate because its not a repetitive task for me. I would have to price it out myself...

 

[jmsbrush]

I have a customer that wants to add a power center for a boat. Power center is a 200-amp load about 350' from the panel. How do I do a flat rate quote on this?

This is meant to be a serious question.

Very simple!
You go to your flat rate book, You go to the conduit page. That has a price for what ever type of conduit. Go to your wire page for the size of wire you need. Which also has the price included. Then go to the page for panels and load centers. Which also has the price included. Add those prices together and there you go. Your Price.
These figures already have your overhead and profit built in. Its up front prices right there for your customer to see.

 

[satcom]

Very simple!
You go to your flat rate book, You go to the conduit page. That has a price for what ever type of conduit. Go to your wire page for the size of wire you need. Which also has the price included. Then go to the page for panels and load centers. Which also has the price included. Add those prices together and there you go. Your Price.
These figures already have your overhead and profit built in. Its up front prices right there for your customer to see.

Perfect job to use a pricing book, you just have to understand how the book works, and how to apply it, all the estimating has been done and your overhead and burden, and profit is already figured.

 

[Mule]

Very simple!
You go to your flat rate book, You go to the conduit page. That has a price for what ever type of conduit. Go to your wire page for the size of wire you need. Which also has the price included. Then go to the page for panels and load centers. Which also has the price included. Add those prices together and there you go. Your Price.
These figures already have your overhead and profit built in. Its up front prices right there for your customer to see.

Good points, That's how I do it, and I find that data book is quicker for smaller projects than the software which Im not very good at......I can price up a job pretty quick. I use mostly the labor units however. I do take the material cost data and cross check it with local supplier quotes which is different...

As for my last post on this thread, My intent was that non-repetitive jobs are hard flat rate the whole job, but In jmsbrush's method breaking it down is exactly how I do it....

 

[hardworkingstiff]

Very simple!
You go to your flat rate book, You go to the conduit page. That has a price for what ever type of conduit. Go to your wire page for the size of wire you need. Which also has the price included. Then go to the page for panels and load centers. Which also has the price included. Add those prices together and there you go. Your Price.
These figures already have your overhead and profit built in. Its up front prices right there for your customer to see.

OK, I'm game, who's book do I buy? (or is it a service with a monthly charge?)

 

[Mule]

OK, I'm game, who's book do I buy? (or is it a service with a monthly charge?)

Not 100% on the name, its in the van, but I think one I have is Ecost electrical cost data. Got mine as a last years book for $25.....I use it mainly for the labor units.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

Thanks Mule. I've used "Means" for the labor units in the past (as well as Electrical Estimator). I've found them very useful when I get into things I don't have a lot of experience with (labor side).

I've been thinking about this and I believe the reason T&M users don't make as much money is they just don't know how much to put on the job.

Most of the work I do does not lend itself to the unit pricing methodology. I don't compete with the "normal" electrician. I'm usually too expensive and I need to find that atypical work to get my pricing. I guess when I think about it I do a hybrid type of estimating. A little T&M and a little unit pricing.

 

[emahler]

Start Here

 

[electricguy]

Start Here

I have seen this company poping up on Google ads lately

http://collierflatrate.com/

 

[jrannis]

I have a customer that wants to add a power center for a boat. Power center is a 200-amp load about 350' from the panel. How do I do a flat rate quote on this?

This is meant to be a serious question.

Do a voltage drop calculation and you might end up with 350MCM.
Start with knowing how long the trenching and backfill will take.
Backhoe for a day $500
350' of 3" PVC $350
8 Hours $360
8 hours
Pull Wire with
Helper $560
2200' 350MCM $8800
Gear $1500
Another 8hours
w/ Helper $560
Truck $250
Misc $200

COST $13,080

Marign %40 $8,720

Total $21,800 (Selling Price)

 

[macmikeman]

Guy's in South Florida who post numbers for trenching hours crack me up. You live where its all sand down to 4 feet. Try your numbers where there is extinct volcano below you and see how long it takes....

 

[peter d]

Guy's in South Florida who post numbers for trenching hours crack me up. You live where its all sand down to 4 feet. Try your numbers where there is extinct volcano below you and see how long it takes....

Or where your soil type is "rocks with some dirt here and there."

 

[aline]

It depends on where you're digging the trench

and who's doing the digging

 

[aline]

and what equipment you're using

 

[powerslave]

Flat rate is all I use. It works very well for me and I'd never go back to T&M.

 

[Mr. Wizard]

Do a voltage drop calculation and you might end up with 350MCM.
Start with knowing how long the trenching and backfill will take.
Backhoe for a day $500
350' of 3" PVC $350
8 Hours $360
8 hours
Pull Wire with
Helper $560
2200' 350MCM $8800
Gear $1500
Another 8hours
w/ Helper $560
Truck $250
Misc $200

COST $13,080

Marign %40 $8,720

Total $21,800 (Selling Price)

8 hours for $360? Can I use you as a sub sometime? Just kidding, but that is cheap. Flat rate for me and a helper is $1200 a day (8 hours). Other than that, your price is spot on.

 

[jrannis]

8 hours for $360? Can I use you as a sub sometime? Just kidding, but that is cheap. Flat rate for me and a helper is $1200 a day (8 hours). Other than that, your price is spot on.

Just looking at cost!
$36 is wages and burden. Could be closer to $45.

Regular service rate for a man and a boy is $150 to $170 per hour.