Flat rate pricing....Who's actually doing it?

[peter d]

Homelite.

Yeah, I don't buy Homelite either. I prefer Stihl or Husqvarna.

 

[BryanMD]

Mule I agree, Demographics play a big part in pricing. As long as you know your true cost and making a profit thats comfortable for you and you are where you are in your life. Then I think that is Fine.

But NO ONE really knows what their (current) true costs are.

You may know what your costs WERE and project what they should or might be, and you may even be able to do that pretty close to accurate, but you can't know what your costs are for this month until after this month has passed.

 

[celtic]

No offense to anyone, but I tend to shy away from SqD Homelite. If I use SqD, I go with the QO series. A little more pricey, but it helps me sleep better at night.

I give the HO the option of choosing what brand panel they will be paying for....from what is available by me.

The HO will usually ask me: Well what do you think?
My reply is: I have a QO in my house.

I let the customer decide.
IMHO, it is more professional to give them choices and my opinion, rather than just force my ideals on them w/o regards to their wallets.

 

[LarryFine]

If I use SqD, I go with the QO series. A little more pricey, but it helps me sleep better at night.

Okay, sleep easy. :smile: QO it is:

A QO 200a 40/40 is $209, a difference of $55.00, add the ten 20a 1p's that the VP included, for $64.70, and add the difference between the HL's and QO's for the others in my breaker list, $46.62, for a total of $166.32 to add to my previous $272.86.

New total: $439.18, still below $500. How's that?



Added: Can the typical supply house beat that total?

 

[Mr. Wizard]

Okay, How's that?

I like it :smile: If I can keep a 200 amp service material cost below $500, I'm tickled. I agree with Celtic, if the HO ask me what I'd use if it were my house, I tell the HO the I use SqD QO, and that's what I use. I've had a lot of trouble in the past with HomeLINE (thanks for the correction there, Peter D :roll breakers failing mechanically. Just my opinion.

 

[ohm]

IF some jurisdictions outlaw T & M (in any form or fashion) does anyone take on a troubleshooting job for a flat rate? It could take 5 min. or five days! What's the business model? The law of averages?

Would a doctor treat a cancer patient for a flat rate, with a cure being the end product?

 

[MarkyMarkNC]

Just to add a question on to the original question. For those that are using flat rate pricing, are you using commercial software, or have you developed the pricing yourself through trial and error, experience etc?

 

[emahler]

IF some jurisdictions outlaw T & M (in any form or fashion) does anyone take on a troubleshooting job for a flat rate? It could take 5 min. or five days! What's the business model? The law of averages?

Would a doctor treat a cancer patient for a flat rate, with a cure being the end product?

every doctor uses flat rate....when was the last time you got an itemized invoice listing time and material from a doctor?

 

[ohm]

every doctor uses flat rate....when was the last time you got an itemized invoice listing time and material from a doctor?

When I do a flat rate job I don't get paid unless I complete the job. Is that why a doctor doesn't DO a job they just PRACTISE, until they get it right.

 

[peter d]

(thanks for the correction there, Peter D :roll

You're welcome.

And it was a joke. :roll:

 

[LarryFine]

I've had a lot of trouble in the past with HomeLINE ... breakers failing mechanically.

The scuttlebutt is that the internal mechanism is the same in both lines, with only case differences.

 

[peter d]

The scuttlebutt is that the internal mechanism is the same in both lines, with only case differences.

And the Visi-Trip window, of course.

 

[tonyou812]

Define "material."

With a back-to-back meter/panel, there's the panel, breakers, a few feet of SE, and grounding. The POCO provides meter bases and does everything line-side of the meter (exc. masts.)

Home Depot pricing:

Homeline 200a MB Value Pack 40/40 w/10 20a 1p = $154.00
15a 1p - 3.25, 5 = $16.25
30a 2p - 7.84, 3 = $23.52
40a 2p - 7.84, 1 = $7.84
SEU - 3.00/ft, 6' = $18.00
Ground rod, 9.25, 2 = $18.50
Ground clamps, 3 = $9.75
Ground wires = $25

Total = $272.86

Of course, there are variables, probably more circuits, and the POCO isn't so generous in other areas, but it's doable.

ground rods 9.25? 3 clamps ? let me see water heater- 2, water meter-2, ground rods-2,rebar ground, 6 ft of seu, I always do it in metal or pvc pipe, 19 circuts only? meter pan? ( even if you get it from Poco someone has to pick it up), do you mount it right to concret or what?do you use bugs or crimps? are you really only using 6 feet of seu or any service entry? are you resusing old breakers? .....Im not sure but I feel like your missing a bunch of stuff. And some of our prices dont match.
I just did three service changes and they were all above 2200 bucks and some a bit more. I do many of them alone so I usually have to go back to finish something small like grounding or labeling so maybe thats were we differ. But I am finding it nesacary to include small upgrades like swaping out a couple of outlets to new or tamper resistant(1.19 each at Home Depot). I did loose one service change, and the guy told me he found someone to do it for 1400 so I lost out.
My material usually comes out to 650- 800 bucks. And Permits are usually 60-90 bucks for 200 amp upgrades, not to mention the time spent doing or waiting for inspectors. ....but what do i know...all i know is what I need to do to make it work..

 

[jrannis]

your right, I shouldnt have said anything. It only winds up bitting me in the butt. But seriously how do you even get material for 400 bucks for a 200 amp service change?

OK Tony, I know you guys from Jersey have a different set of manners then we do down south.
If you are nice to some city folk they will think it is a sign of weakness and will take you for a long ride before you get your money. If at all!

Remember Mule is debt free, has his son-in-law working for him as a helper, lives in a rural area and took himself out of the rat race.
He might know his customers financial situation and knows he has to do the job because he is the "town electrician" and is expected to, and will, charge accordingly.
The guy living in the big house on the hill, overlooking the town, might expect to pay a little more.
Guy installing the million dollar silo operation might pay an industrial rate. All done by the "town electrician".
What ever he makes, he gets to keep.
All done on a handshake!
Mule works and lives in a small town and has to see his customers almost on a daily basis. Could be in town, at the diner but for sure in church on Sunday.
If Mule knows his costs and can get by on %20 margin then God bless him. That would be my goal.
Otherwise, here in the City we need to be in the mid to high 30% just to make it. When you can get a higher margin, it makes like easier.

 

[jrannis]

Oh yeah to answer the question.
I will only do flat rate pricing. Easier to close the deal.
Just get real good at defining your scope of work!

 

[bradleyelectric]

OK Tony, I know you guys from Jersey have a different set of manners then we do down south.
If you are nice to some city folk they will think it is a sign of weakness and will take you for a long ride before you get your money. If at all!

Remember Mule is debt free, has his son-in-law working for him as a helper, lives in a rural area and took himself out of the rat race.
He might know his customers financial situation and knows he has to do the job because he is the "town electrician" and is expected to, and will, charge accordingly.
The guy living in the big house on the hill, overlooking the town, might expect to pay a little more.
Guy installing the million dollar silo operation might pay an industrial rate. All done by the "town electrician".
What ever he makes, he gets to keep.
All done on a handshake!
Mule works and lives in a small town and has to see his customers almost on a daily basis. Could be in town, at the diner but for sure in church on Sunday.
If Mule knows his costs and can get by on %20 margin then God bless him. That would be my goal.
Otherwise, here in the City we need to be in the mid to high 30% just to make it. When you can get a higher margin, it makes like easier.

That would be all well and good. It doesn't apply here though. Mule likes to sell on price and isn't the only game in town.

 

[ohm]

OK Tony, I know you guys from Jersey have a different set of manners then we do down south.
If you are nice to some city folk they will think it is a sign of weakness and will take you for a long ride before you get your money. If at all!

Remember Mule is debt free, has his son-in-law working for him as a helper, lives in a rural area and took himself out of the rat race.
He might know his customers financial situation and knows he has to do the job because he is the "town electrician" and is expected to, and will, charge accordingly.
The guy living in the big house on the hill, overlooking the town, might expect to pay a little more.
Guy installing the million dollar silo operation might pay an industrial rate. All done by the "town electrician".
What ever he makes, he gets to keep.
All done on a handshake!
Mule works and lives in a small town and has to see his customers almost on a daily basis. Could be in town, at the diner but for sure in church on Sunday.
If Mule knows his costs and can get by on %20 margin then God bless him. That would be my goal.
Otherwise, here in the City we need to be in the mid to high 30% just to make it. When you can get a higher margin, it makes like easier.

The small time electrician doesn't have to lock and unlock his truck all day long, pay parking fees, bond his jobs, wait in traffic, wait to get a permit, wait to buy supplies, pay tolls, wait for the inspector (and friend), wait for zoning or septic tank inspection, deal with union rules & scale, get his truck inspected or weighed, wonder if a scrub jay will scrub his job. Also, if he needs a hand on a job the HO or another craft will often help him and loan him a tool or a fastener.

I can call my wholesale houses or HD and they will gather my material and all I have to do is go in and sign a ticket. I have their home and personal cell phone numbers and they send me business, no charge.

The mayor, city council, police dept, fire dept. , clerks, inspectors and most residents are on a first name basis with the town electrician and will usually help any way they can, even after business hours.

The list goes on and on. Life is good!

 

[Mr. Wizard]

The small time electrician doesn't have to lock and unlock his truck all day long, pay parking fees, bond his jobs, wait in traffic, wait to get a permit, wait to buy supplies, pay tolls, wait for the inspector (and friend), wait for zoning or septic tank inspection, deal with union rules & scale, get his truck inspected or weighed, wonder if a scrub jay will scrub his job. Also, if he needs a hand on a job the HO or another craft will often help him and loan him a tool or a fastener.

I can call my wholesale houses or HD and they will gather my material and all I have to do is go in and sign a ticket. I have their home and personal cell phone numbers and they send me business, no charge.

The mayor, city council, police dept, fire dept. , clerks, inspectors and most residents are on a first name basis with the town electrician and will usually help any way they can, even after business hours.

The list goes on and on. Life is good!

True words. Even here in my little town, it seems everyone knows everyone, and word of mouth can make you or break you. Cost of living, for instance, is also a big part of it. Tonyou812 is from NJ, where home prices are very expensive compared to where I live. I live in a 2100 sq ft. home, and it needed nothing done to it when we moved in, except for a little paint and personal touches, and we bought it for $70,000. Online, a similar house in NJ will set me back over $200,000. Pretty sure commercial real estate there is just as expensive. So labor prices are changed accordingly. I'm sure Mule knows what he's doing, and I'm sure Mule doesn't do this for a hobby. I suspect he makes darn good money in OK, and can sleep well at night knowing he has given his customers (some of which I'm sure are dirt poor) a good deal and a quality job.

 

[bradleyelectric]

True words. Even here in my little town, it seems everyone knows everyone, and word of mouth can make you or break you. Cost of living, for instance, is also a big part of it. Tonyou812 is from NJ, where home prices are very expensive compared to where I live. I live in a 2100 sq ft. home, and it needed nothing done to it when we moved in, except for a little paint and personal touches, and we bought it for $70,000. Online, a similar house in NJ will set me back over $200,000. Pretty sure commercial real estate there is just as expensive. So labor prices are changed accordingly. I'm sure Mule knows what he's doing, and I'm sure Mule doesn't do this for a hobby. I suspect he makes darn good money in OK, and can sleep well at night knowing he has given his customers (some of which I'm sure are dirt poor) a good deal and a quality job.

Why does that make it wrong to make enough to cover health insurance, the cost of a new truck even though the 1 you have now is paid off, retirement benefits, and have enough in the bank to cover a years woth of expenses if times go bad or you get hurt?

 

[Power Tech]

When I incorperated and created another entity that I work for.I seperated the business from my personal life. The question is: do you have a job or a business. I am an employee and the business pays me a salery. When managing the company, the job must pay the insurence, trucks, my wage or the serviec tech, the accountant and all the other overhead. Plus a profit for the company. The company account is not my money. My wage is not profit. If work falls off a cliff, the business can still pay me my salery.

Terry