Man, am I sheltered, T/M being illegal???.....I guess a man's word or a hand shake is worthless in some areas....wrong color of state for me...
I wish it were illegal here. Sorta.
Flat rate pricing....Who's actually doing it?
- Thread starter Mule
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I wish it were illegal here. Sorta.
ohm
Senior Member
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
Good catch Celtic, I can't immagine it's a law anywhere.
~Shado~
Senior Member
- Location
- Aurora, Colorado
Ok....termonology just varies around the country...no worries. We call it 'Up front pricing"
flat rate....up front...fixed....doesn't matter what you call it...it's all the same system...
tonyou812
Senior Member
- Location
- North New Jersey
Seriously, im sure much of it has to do with the fact that your in OKlahoma. All I can tell you is if I charged 1500 for a service change my truck would smell real bad and so would I. Sorry but it really kills me when you guys undersell yourselves like that. DO you find that you are always busy? maybe its for a reason that you might not be to proud of? your cheap....! Service changes are like a divine right to "Make some money on" and you sell it like cheap perfume. Why would you sell something for 1500 when a person is liable to pay much more for, and rightly so. It raises the question if you have any buisness sense. and perhaps in the long run you are more detrimental to the trade.
tonyou812
Senior Member
- Location
- North New Jersey
I would charge 12- 1400 for a simple panel swap out and at "least" another grand for a full service change.
T&M is not illegal here, or anywhere i know of, but the consumer laws do require a contract and a a firm price for jobs over a certin dollar limit
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Those are pretty strong words..and probably something I would never say to you or anyone else.
I dont really have much to say, except the same old story, that houses cost nearly twice for you as they do for us....My son lives near DC and is home shoping down south of there, so I know........and EC rates here likewise are half what yours is...I sub contracted a job a while back for a contractor from the KC area and their rates where almost the same as ours....I have close relations with a large union shop here in town, and we charge the same as they do.
So, as for your strong words, IMO someone that cant digest that information, is someone I cant really reason with not matter what....sorry every time I slip and state figures, I get hammered and talked down to, and frankly its pretty rude.
I'm not following. Is T&M legal on jobs over $500? Or only jobs less than $500?
tonyou812
Senior Member
- Location
- North New Jersey
your right, I shouldnt have said anything. It only winds up bitting me in the butt. But seriously how do you even get material for 400 bucks for a 200 amp service change?
Four runs or 1 1/4 EMT approx 14ft long....with #3 feeders, one burnt up QO2100 replaced and a few more fittings was all I furnished...poco furnished the meter pack, terminal box.and there was a existing UG lateral..bla bla........I never said it was a service change.
It was a bit labor intensive and took us all day.....and trust me $95-100/hr for jman and helper is the going rate.
And what's this about a divine right?
I dont go around stating that everyone eles is raping the customer, because I understand that prices are gross'ly different.....yes I was shocked when I first learned that.
I spent a week in Princeton one time serving on national eletrical electrical exam board and we stayed at the motel near the college, the rates then where like $350 a night and that's been 10 years ago..and hamburger was $10 in the motel....you can get a motel here for under a 100 bucks if not under 50.
I just did a search on a realtors website for northern New Jersey, dont remember the town but only found 4 properties between 100 and 200,000 bucks...you can build a new house here for $85-95/ft here and EC's get $4/ft all day long to wire them. A new 200 amp sercvice will cost you 900-1300.
Seriously Im not picking on you, because I like your post, but I wish you guys would back off and see the light....
For T&M work, you are giving the client a "firm price" ~ just not a "firm time" reference
You could structure the contract to state: Not to exceed $xxx.xx w/o additional authorization.....the "not to exceed" amount could be your rate x 4hr - 6 hr - 8 hr - 40 hr....whatever you have figured to a reasonable amount of time. The customer is, of course, free to decline the T&M offer.
tonyou812
Senior Member
- Location
- North New Jersey
Your right, I apoligize. It was a knee jerk reaction. No offense dude. For some reason I keep thinking that your from NY. But regardless I should be more civil.
accepted, No problem........:smile:
For T&M work, you are giving the client a "firm price" ~ just not a "firm time" reference
I consider T&M neither of those. Neither a firm price and nor a firm time reference.
Not trying to keep the pot simmering, but the reality is:
There are EC's in NJ charging $1500 for 200A services:
http://tinyurl.com/b2u4pc
[It's a CL ad, but I used tinyurl to mask the reference to CL]
Most of our work is T/M and we quote labor hourly rates and material markup percentages, and have a handshake that the customer can run us off at any time, and we bill approximately every $2000 and payment is due upon receipt, except corporations will run you out there 30-60 days....works really well for us. We have discounts for our regular rates and markups for jobs that are "multiple 8hr days" but same conditions apply
:-?
Laws like what?
I just explained how to use T&M and be in compliance with any law.
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