Flexible cord protection.

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Isaiah

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Location
Baton Rouge
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Electrical Inspector
I am curious as to why #16AWG flexible cord can be protected by a 20A CB (240.5(B) when its current rating is only 10A (240.4(D)(2). Is this simply because its been 'Listed' and therefore electrically acceptable?
 
Perhaps this explanation will help you to understand why.

An OCPD has two purposes: (1) To protect against a short to ground, and (2) To protect against excess current overheating the wire.

With respect to the first condition, even a 24ga bell wire creating a dead short will conduct enough instantaneous current to trip a 20A breaker. So the 16ga flexible cord poses no risk in that regard: if there's a short, the 16ga cord will easily conduct enough current to quickly trip the breaker without the cord bursting into flames.

With respect to the second condition, the conductors in the building must be rated no less than the OCPD because who knows what will be plugged into the outlet. If someone were to overload the branch, you don't want the wires to melt before the breaker trips. So for a 20A OCPD, you must install 12ga or larger wire. But the lamp or appliance has been designed to only draw a limited amount of current. The engineers base the size of each wire in the lamp/appliance -- including the flexible cord supplying the lamp/appliance -- on the amount of current the lamp/appliance will draw (plus some safety factor, and limited to be no less than a minimum size). They know that, under normal circumstances, the lamp/appliance will never draw enough current to melt that 16ga cord. That's why it's able to get listed, even though it may be plugged into an outlet with a 20A OCPD.
 
Perhaps this explanation will help you to understand why.

An OCPD has two purposes: (1) To protect against a short to ground, and (2) To protect against excess current overheating the wire.

With respect to the first condition, even a 24ga bell wire creating a dead short will conduct enough instantaneous current to trip a 20A breaker. So the 16ga flexible cord poses no risk in that regard: if there's a short, the 16ga cord will easily conduct enough current to quickly trip the breaker without the cord bursting into flames.

With respect to the second condition, the conductors in the building must be rated no less than the OCPD because who knows what will be plugged into the outlet. If someone were to overload the branch, you don't want the wires to melt before the breaker trips. So for a 20A OCPD, you must install 12ga or larger wire. But the lamp or appliance has been designed to only draw a limited amount of current. The engineers base the size of each wire in the lamp/appliance -- including the flexible cord supplying the lamp/appliance -- on the amount of current the lamp/appliance will draw (plus some safety factor, and limited to be no less than a minimum size). They know that, under normal circumstances, the lamp/appliance will never draw enough current to melt that 16ga cord. That's why it's able to get listed, even though it may be plugged into an outlet with a 20A OCPD.

Thanks Jon456; I am not too concerned condition 1, i. e. short circuit protection with 20A OCPD - citing T430.52.
Regarding condition 2; basically what you’re saying is even though the vendor shows a motor current draw of 12A continuous - obviously greater than the 10A rating of the cord - it doesn’t really matter since testing/listing has proven internal TP will not trip and the cord will not be damaged under normal conditions at 12A?


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Regarding condition 2; basically what you’re saying is even though the vendor shows a motor current draw of 12A continuous - obviously greater than the 10A rating of the cord - it doesn’t really matter since testing/listing has proven internal TP will not trip and the cord will not be damaged under normal conditions at 12A?
It depends on the composition of the cord. It's typically the insulation that limits the current rating because if the wire gets too hot the insulation melts or burns. For 16ga SOOW/SJTOW with 2 current-carrying conductors and length up to 50', the ampacity is 13A.
 
That's for performing circuit load calculations.

It’s also for cable sizing. But since the motor has been listed/tested I have to assume the vendor cord info is valid, per section 110.3B


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It’s also for cable sizing. But since the motor has been listed/tested I have to assume the vendor cord info is valid, per section 110.3B


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It's also for running permanent wires to a generic version of a load. The nec has no idea what the exact efficiency of a motor is going to be so they size their wires quite generously. Manufactureres are wanting costs low so they are going to size their wires for what they need
 
It's also for running permanent wires to a generic version of a load. The nec has no idea what the exact efficiency of a motor is going to be so they size their wires quite generously. Manufactureres are wanting costs low so they are going to size their wires for what they need

You may be right but I don’t feel comfortable with it and I don’t care what the cheap-ass vendor says.
I’ve advised construction to cut this thing off near the motor connections and install numbers 12’s from the panel board.
Thanks Dave and Jon for your input
 
You may be right but I don’t feel comfortable with it and I don’t care what the cheap-ass vendor says. I’ve advised construction to cut this thing off near the motor connections and install numbers 12’s from the panel board.
By modifying the equipment, you are altering the listing. And you are accepting liability for it if anything goes wrong in the future.
 
By modifying the equipment, you are altering the listing. And you are accepting liability for it if anything goes wrong in the future.

You’re right - But my way is electrically correct and safer


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You’re right - But my way is electrically correct and safer


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Not necessarily. That factory cord is going to be just fine. It will never see anywhere near the load the NEC sizes things for. That is true for at least ninety percent of all wiring. You know where problems show up most of the time? At connections and splices. Those field installed wire nuts are now the weak link.
 
Not necessarily. That factory cord is going to be just fine. It will never see anywhere near the load the NEC sizes things for. That is true for at least ninety percent of all wiring. You know where problems show up most of the time? At connections and splices. Those field installed wire nuts are now the weak link.

Your right....but what if I use a GUA fitting with terminals instead of wire nuts?


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You are focused on the term wire nut. I said it that way because I'm an electrician. That's not the point. The point is wires don't fail ninety nine percent of the time. Connections do. Maybe your connectors are good. Maybe the factory connection is bad. You just doubled the odds of a failure.
 
You are focused on the term wire nut. I said it that way because I'm an electrician. That's not the point. The point is wires don't fail ninety nine percent of the time. Connections do. Maybe your connectors are good. Maybe the factory connection is bad. You just doubled the odds of a failure.

Ok but what about the other 10% of the time?
So the choices are: two points of failure or remote chance of over heating the cable.
I’ve decided to throw this one over to the clients side and let him make the decision.


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I’ve decided to throw this one over to the clients side and let him make the decision.
Unless the client is an electrician or an engineer, then you're throwing him/her a curveball because that person probably doesn't have the requisite knowledge to make an informed decision. That is why they hired YOU to do the installation: you're supposed to have the knowledge and professionalism to make the correct decisions on their behalf.

First, you're trying to second-guess the engineers who designed the equipment and the testing laboratory that listed it. Second, you're asking the client to second guess the engineers/testing lab, and they probably haven't a clue as to why that particular cable is on the motor, why it was approved, and what liability they are incurring by cutting it off and replacing it.

IMO, you're steering the client down the wrong path and placing them at risk. Is that what they hired you for? If you want to monkey around with your own personal equipment because you think the vendor is a "cheap-ass" that's up to you. But you have a duty to your client not to increase their liability exposure.
 
Unless the client is an electrician or an engineer, then you're throwing him/her a curveball because that person probably doesn't have the requisite knowledge to make an informed decision. That is why they hired YOU to do the installation: you're supposed to have the knowledge and professionalism to make the correct decisions on their behalf.

First, you're trying to second-guess the engineers who designed the equipment and the testing laboratory that listed it. Second, you're asking the client to second guess the engineers/testing lab, and they probably haven't a clue as to why that particular cable is on the motor, why it was approved, and what liability they are incurring by cutting it off and replacing it.

IMO, you're steering the client down the wrong path and placing them at risk. Is that what they hired you for? If you want to monkey around with your own personal equipment because you think the vendor is a "cheap-ass" that's up to you. But you have a duty to your client not to increase their liability exposure.

I‘ve already spoken to the client who is an Electrical Engineer w/PE in 7 states and also happens to be the AHJ at this facility.
HE KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT AND HAS AGREED: THE #16AWG VENDOR CORD IS UNDERSIZED PER NEC AND HAS TO GO!!

His only additional comment was “thanks Isaiah for pointing this out”


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