Footing on an addition?

[barbeer]

isn't a connection buried in concrete now "irreversible"?

Obviously you have never seen Florida drivers! :smile:

 

[rcarroll]

I'm not talking about the connection to the re-bar, that's OK.
I'm talking about the connection of the (#4) GEC that runs from the panel to the other piece of #4 that goes into the footer.
I'm asking if the piece of #4 wire that goes into the footer is part of the grounding electrode and if I can connect to it with a (listed) split bolt?

I say yes to both.

steve

I say no to both. 5' of #4 connected to rebar is not a grounding electrode. It is a grounding electrode conductor. If it is too short to reach the disco, you need an irreversible connector to add more wire.

 

[infinity]

I say no to both. 5' of #4 connected to rebar is not a grounding electrode. It is a grounding electrode conductor. If it is too short to reach the disco, you need an irreversible connector to add more wire.

I agree unless you have a metallic water pipe too. Then the GEC would go to the water pipe. The conductor to the CEE would be a bonding jumper.

 

[Bea]

I agree unless you have a metallic water pipe too. Then the GEC would go to the water pipe. The conductor to the CEE would be a bonding jumper.

I disagree this has been discussed before but the CEE is a grounding electrode by difinition the conductor that connects it to the service equipment is a GEC by definition not a bonding jumper.

 

[Bea]

What is the basis for this requirement this being slab on grade if there is monolithic footer is there rebar in it or just the slab

also require a new mono-slab CEE installed to be run to the new service.

 

[infinity]

I disagree this has been discussed before but the CEE is a grounding electrode by difinition the conductor that connects it to the service equipment is a GEC by definition not a bonding jumper.

If there is a metal water pipe present then the conductor connected to it would be the GEC. The CEE would be the supplemental electrode which is connected by a bonding jumper not a GEC.

 

[gndrod]

If there is a metal water pipe present then the conductor connected to it would be the GEC. The CEE would be the supplemental electrode which is connected by a bonding jumper not a GEC.

Hi Trevor,

In commercial conditions, the single GEC to effectively bonded electrodes 250.58 would normally apply. Using the same application in residential may not be AHJ acceptable. I can only state this from many years of Ufer installations (1972) in West Coast states where both waterpipe and CEE are separate from each other, both require a separate GEC back to the main disconnect. A good reason is unsighted metal waterpipe transition to PVC after leaving the foundation that the AHJ wants verified or flat out says no due to future water pipe changeouts that occur. rbj

 

[gndrod]

One point.

One point.

I missed the inspector, but the GC asked him the same questions I had:

Q: What's the point?
A: I don't know..I'm just here to enforce the code.

Inspite of all this..I still fail to see "What's the point?"

Other than saving time and material costs on residential & multi-family installations, plastic water supply pipe that the plumber or well sub may decide to install later. Note that #4 rebar (1/2") is minimum UBC, IRC for foundation footers. #3 is used along horizontal wall cinderblock and risers only. rbj

 

[infinity]

Other than saving time and material costs on residential & multi-family installations, plastic water supply pipe that the plumber or well sub may decide to install later. Note that #4 rebar (1/2") is minimum UBC, IRC for foundation footers. #3 is used along horizontal wall cinderblock and risers only. rbj

I wired an addition about a year ago that had #3 (3/8") rebar in the footing. This was the sized spec'd by the Architect and approved by the building department.

 

[gndrod]

Maybe that is compliant in the area. This would be contrary to the UBC and IRC codes. Maybe the AHJ allowed three #3s instead of #4s in the stemwall unless it was monolithic, then one #5 or 2 #4s are stated. (IRC re:R403.1.3.1 or .2) Could be I am out of touch. Architects know everything. rbj

 

[George Stolz]

I disagree this has been discussed before but the CEE is a grounding electrode by difinition the conductor that connects it to the service equipment is a GEC by definition not a bonding jumper.

If a conductor starts at the service and ends at a GE, it's a GEC.

If a conductor starts at a GE and ends at a different GE, it is a bonding jumper, to be installed according to 250.53(C). Notice 250.64(C) is missing from that section.