For recessed lighting - what does the IC mean?

[big vic]

Halo website says "IC" means insulated ceiling

 

[macmikeman]

IC recess cans look almost the same as non IC cans except for a flat plate inside that reflects heat back out the opening of the can. If you look in the opening and no flat plate at the base where the lamp socket is then it is a non IC can. There is that earth shaking difference and one other. The other difference is that the stickers are different. One says IC and the other says non IC. Both types have a thermal cutout since I don't remember exactly when, I think it was in the early to mid 80's when I started seeing them. The recess cans with the square box look are serving another purpose - sealing for keeping cold air out and warm air in the room. Those types are mostly rated IC also.

 

[infinity]

Halo website says "IC" means insulated ceiling

Lightolier says the same thing.

 

[allenwayne]

Looking through progress lightings site I see they have trims also listed as IC rated and some not.Now thier recessed cans don`t have the same flat panel inside as lets say a halo but they do have a sticker on them that says must use an IC rated trim if in contact with insulation (or something really close to that wording)

 

[Mike03a3]

My source is a guy at the Home Depot, so take it for what it's worth...

ROTFLMAO - yeah, he works in the electrical aisle, but did he stay at the Holiday Inn Express last night? A couple of months ago I happened to overhear a Big Orange associate trying to sell a customer some recessed lights. The customer was telling him his electrician insisted he (the electrician) could only install IC rated lights. The sales guy was telling him they were out, but he had plenty of non-IC lights that were "just as good" and cheaper.

 

[goldstar]

Just about all recessed fixture cans today come with thermal protection. If you over-lamp the fixture (i.e if it says max 60 watts of a particular type bulb and you install a 100 watt) the bulb will heat up the thermal link, shut down, cool off, come back on, shut down, cool off, come back on..............you get the picture. It's OK if you are in a disco but not in a church. I say that because our church caretaker likes to install whatever bulb he has available. It makes for a fun sermon on sundays.

Also, if you are working in the states of NY or NJ, any recessed can that you install in an area that has insulation must be IC rated. You can no longer push away the insulation 3". In addition, there is also an "energy" code that must be adhered to where the IC can not only has to be IC rated but also has to be "air tight". So, don't bother getting the plain IC's for a new installation. Get the ICAT's. Most of these fixtures will usually restrict you to 50 or 65 watts if you use an R-30 bulb but in some cases if you use a PAR bulb you can bump it up 10 watts depending on the maker.

 

[monkey]

IC recess cans look almost the same as non IC cans except for a flat plate inside that reflects heat back out the opening of the can. If you look in the opening and no flat plate at the base where the lamp socket is then it is a non IC can. There is that earth shaking difference and one other. The other difference is that the stickers are different. One says IC and the other says non IC. Both types have a thermal cutout since I don't remember exactly when, I think it was in the early to mid 80's when I started seeing them. The recess cans with the square box look are serving another purpose - sealing for keeping cold air out and warm air in the room. Those types are mostly rated IC also.

So does this mean when you change to a trim like a shower trim or an eyeball trim which requires you to remove that flat plate and install the socket directly into the new trim, you now have a non IC rated can?

And I thought IC cans had a double construction on top with a 1/2 inch air space between the layers.

 

[macmikeman]

I never had to remove an IC pan when installing a shower trim. The Halo brand works just fine for shower trims with the pan left in. What document tells you to remove the pan?

 

[goldstar]

So does this mean when you change to a trim like a shower trim or an eyeball trim which requires you to remove that flat plate and install the socket directly into the new trim, you now have a non IC rated can?

You have to look at the label inside the can. It will tell you what bulbs you can use with a respective trim. A shower trim used with an IC can will usually restrict you to a 40 watt A bulb. In the case of an eyeball trim you'll have to remove the socket from the top plate and remove the plate altogether because the trim has an articulating part. But again, you'll have to read the instructions inside the trim or find a cut sheet that explains what trims you can use.

And I thought IC cans had a double construction on top with a 1/2 inch air space between the layers.

These are usually ICAT cans but I don't know if all manufacturers make them with a 1/2" space between the layers.

 

[George Stolz]

I think everything varies by manufacturer.

Capri cans do not have a double-layer contruction, and are IC rated with certain trim/lamp combinations noted on the label.

The non-IC label behind the IC label lists higher wattage lamps and different trims, it can handle more heat with no insulation surrounding it.

 

[knightstar]

Recessed IC light

Recessed IC light

Can the IC rated recessed light have insulation over the can or is the in-contact considered to only be associated with being in-contact with the perimeter of the recessed light housing.

 

[LarryFine]

Can the IC rated recessed light have insulation over the can or is the in-contact considered to only be associated with being in-contact with the perimeter of the recessed light housing.

The insulation may completely encapsulate the can.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The insulation may completely encapsulate the can.

I know this is and old thread but Larry's statement made me think of a job I just did. I put in recessed cans (IC) and the insulation they use is a foam spray. They foamed everything. I hate it. Talk about encapsulating the can. Here is a shot of what it looks like -- picture the can in there somewhere. Totally illegal because there is no way to access the wiring.

 

[celtic]

Totally illegal because there is no way to access the wiring.

Where/what is the requirement for wiring to be "accessible"?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Where/what is the requirement for wiring to be "accessible"?

The splice in the JB must be accessible. You can't bury a box in the wall--- you know that. That is why the cans are removable so you can get access to the box. If it is glued in this foam you can't get to it.

 

[celtic]

The splice in the JB must be accessible. You can't bury a box in the wall--- you know that. That is why the cans are removable so you can get access to the box. If it is glued in this foam you can't get to it.

Don't the cans have an access plate that can be reached (if you're a contortionist) from inside the housing?

EDIT:

I didn't see until I typed it....LOL....the foam is ALSO now if the way of that so-called access.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Don't the cans have an access plate that can be reached (if you're a contortionist) from inside the housing?

EDIT:

I didn't see until I typed it....LOL....the foam is ALSO now if the way of that so-called access.

Right, the box is encapsulated with foam. Have you all not seen this in NJ yet. It's been on three or four jobs lately. I'll tell you something. No more leaving the wall stubbed out for lights--- you better cut them in before they blow that S... in there.

 

[celtic]

Have you all not seen this in NJ yet. It's been on three or four jobs lately.

I haven't ...can't say for the other guys.

I have seen it on some of those HI shows ...it looked like it would be a real PITA for running ANYTHING at a later point....but PITA translates into $$ so I guess I shouldn't complain too loudly

 

[knightstar]

Thank you

Thank you

Good responses, and thanks for the thoughts about the spay foam.

FYI: I'm not a fan of turning a house into a terrarium.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Right, the box is encapsulated with foam. Have you all not seen this in NJ yet. It's been on three or four jobs lately. I'll tell you something. No more leaving the wall stubbed out for lights--- you better cut them in before they blow that S... in there.

In the last year or so I have seen quite the increase in the number of jobs using the spray foam insulation. It is usually the higher end residential work. I have not seen it installed in the ceiling as in the posted picture. I would have to think about that type of installation.