Four floor motel

[quogueelectric]

You know what is one of the funniest things is when I see young mechanics try to run rigid pipe and it is up to me whether or not I want to teach them. Because I already know and can run circles around them It is mostly thier Attitude that determines how much they will learn at thier very short chance of ever learning the art of rigid pipe and the layout. I can still hang a paddle fan faster than them or snake a wall with a cat in it without wrecking the house. Wire a new house without getting a single V. Wire a 100,000 square foot house without getting a single V 13,200v substation with a backup gen the size if a train. so dont think the resi guys have one over on me. I got skills on both sides of the fence I was on both sides of the fence over the last 35 yrs. Residential/comercial Union/nonunion I know the whole game. 4 story hotels in romex disturbs me you all seem so proud of this enjoy your day in the sun.

 

[peter d]

4 story hotels in romex disturbs me

Not me.

you all seem so proud of this enjoy your day in the sun.

Lighten up man. We're talking about NM cable here. It's not the end of the world. You act like installing romex in commercial buildings is the worst atrocity an electrician can commit.

But I see your mind is made up on this, so I'm not going to bother unless you have some reason that romex is so bad and/or dangerous. Maybe it's not common where you live but around here is so common that we don't even give it a second thought.

 

[Tiger Electrical]

NM is allowed in some of the departments around here. It's easier for me to throw 100' of 1/2" emt and a few rolls of 12 ga in the truck than to carry all the different NMs. EMT is good in every department here, NM isn't.

I suspect years ago someone put the words electrical and fire in the same sentence and everyone in Chicago freaked out. Then someone saw some rats the size of small raccoons eating NM because some electrician had food on his hands and they decided rats eat NM.

Dave

 

[stickboy1375]

I suspect years ago someone put the words electrical and fire in the same sentence and everyone in Chicago freaked out.

Actually it was a cow. :grin:

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I was on both sides of the fence over the last 35 yrs. 4 story hotels in romex disturbs me you all seem so proud of this enjoy your day in the sun.

I do not think we all are amusing ourselfs at your behalf.
What we are interested in is your reason for the strong feeling about NM cable in other than a 3 story building.

With 35 years in the industry, you have seen a lot of changes...I would think that some flexibility in your opinions would be a part of the changes you have experienced.

Try to remember that lousy work abounds in all facets of our industry...try to think of all the good work, including NM cable installations.

 

[quogueelectric]

I do not think we all are amusing ourselfs at your behalf.
What we are interested in is your reason for the strong feeling about NM cable in other than a 3 story building.

With 35 years in the industry, you have seen a lot of changes...I would think that some flexibility in your opinions would be a part of the changes you have experienced.

Try to remember that lousy work abounds in all facets of our industry...try to think of all the good work, including NM cable installations.

I do not think that you all are amusing yourself on my behalf however I KNOW that SOME of you are amusing themselves at my behalf. My question to you is why do you all dislike mc cable so much?? It is much better protected than nm cable and the shield prevents contact electrocution in the event of forced contact

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Actually I like MC cable alot. I believe it will actually be the reason that AC cable becomes extinct soon.

I also think that like most other issues, the customer (could be EC or the EC's customer) should have the choice - sometimes based on cost, to use whichever is suitable for the installation.
We have buildings here over 20 stories tall that were wired more than 35 years ago with NM cable and there are no ill effects from that wiring method.

 

[stickboy1375]

It is much better protected than nm cable and the shield prevents contact electrocution in the event of forced contact

MC is better protected, but from what? And what forced contact are you talking about that will damage NM, but yet not damage MC? that seems like a very fine line...

 

[quogueelectric]

MC is better protected, but from what? And what forced contact are you talking about that will damage NM, but yet not damage MC? that seems like a very fine line...

The slightest nick of nm Exposed presents an electrocution hazard with any conductive material. There are people out there in the field doing work not related to ours who are incapable of knowing what an electrocution hazard is and I would personaly like them to go to work evey day and return to thier families alive it is that simple. I hope the people who changed these rules can sleep at night. Electricians are not the only people who work in buildings and the plumber to the carpenter and the laboror who didnt deserve to die that day because someone was petitioning for cheaper constrution standards.

 

[mivey]

MC is better protected, but from what?

That's the ticket. Show the facts. We always weigh quality against cost, safety, etc. You can't protect everything against everything. You have to do what is acceptable, more if it brings more value to you.





Edit: Removed personal remarks.

 

[quogueelectric]

MC is better protected, but from what? And what forced contact are you talking about that will damage NM, but yet not damage MC? that seems like a very fine line...

Are you kidding me you would have to drop an elephant on mc to damage it and the surrounding shield would short it out before anyone would get electrocuted much like the neutral wire surrounding service entrance cable. I am truly outraged at the ignorance.

 

[mivey]

quogueelectric

I apoligize if I sounded flippant. I'm sure most of us would like to Cadillac everything to bring the latest and greatest technology to bear to make everything as safe humanly possible but we just don't have the resources. You have to draw a line somewhere. We can work together to move that like if most of us agree.

 

[mivey]

I would also agree that, to some extent, we are trading money for lives but that is true in a lot of the things we do. We come together as a society and decide life value. What else can we do?

 

[quogueelectric]

quogueelectric

I apoligize if I sounded flippant. I'm sure most of us would like to Cadillac everything to bring the latest and greatest technology to bear to make everything as safe humanly possible but we just don't have the resources. You have to draw a line somewhere. We can work together to move that like if most of us agree.

I dont expect to lay this on everyone the same it is just that the ones changing the rules know better and are probably enjoying some sort of perk to put others lives in jeopardy. It is a complicated buisness both physically and politically there is no easy solution yet this is not the way to go in my opinion.

 

[mivey]

I dont expect to lay this on everyone the same it is just that the ones changing the rules know better and are probably enjoying some sort of perk to put others lives in jeopardy. It is a complicated buisness both physically and politically there is no easy solution yet this is not the way to go in my opinion.

What would you change or how would you change how the rules are made?

 

[quogueelectric]

What would you change or how would you change how the rules are made?

Mc cable is cheap enough with enough safety features to be fine in my opinion. I just wish its casing was suitable for grounding it causes much heartache. Every house does not have to be wired in pvc coated rigid in my book yet I do wish there were minimum standards to protect human life dependant upon the likelyhood of exposure to the hazard.

 

[mivey]

mc breakage

mc breakage

While we are on the subject of MC cable, let me go completely off-topic. What do you do when you have completed your runs of MC and the A/C folks (or other contractors) push your cable around and break the sheath? Do you handle it differently depending on how bad the sheath has been pulled apart?

 

[iwire]

I don't think I want to have NM in every application - limiting combustibles does have its place

Mark, in a dwelling unit that will always be loaded with poisonous combustibles out in the open how will NM in the walls make the building less safe.

The furniture, the plastics, the paper will in a fire disable the occupants long before the NM will be effected.

JMO, Bob

 

[iwire]

You are all entitled to your opinions of what is quality work.

Where has one person in this thread mentioned the quality of the work?

Any wiring method can be installed poorly or professionally.

Aparently my standards are higher than others.

Maybe, or maybe you have a closed mind.

There is an old saying You get what you pay for. You want an F350 diesel or a KIA that is up to you.

Now that could not be put better, it is up to the person paying the bill if the want a Cadillac or a Kia, I feel no shame whatsoever of providing a Kia to person that wants one.

Residential/comercial Union/nonunion I know the whole game.

No, you do not 'know the whole game' no one does.

4 story hotels in romex disturbs me

Thats fine, next time your paying for one to be built be sure to include that in the specs. :smile:

you all seem so proud of this enjoy your day in the sun.

I am neither proud or ashamed, I follow the codes and the job specs.

My question to you is why do you all dislike mc cable so much??

I don't dislike MC, as a matter of fact MC and I are good friends.

But, my boss will be a bit upset if I buy and use MC on a NM job.

It is much better protected than nm cable and the shield prevents contact electrocution in the event of forced contact

NM is required in most cases to be concealed, not much happens to it in walls if the normall code rules are followed.

Are you kidding me you would have to drop an elephant on mc to damage it and the surrounding shield would short it out before anyone would get electrocuted much like the neutral wire surrounding service entrance cable.

First off I have never seen a cable damaged from an elephant.

Beyond that, again, the NM is INSIDE the walls, it is not subject to damage.

Why is the fact the building is taller then a 'normal' dwelling have anything to do with the NM being safe or not?

 

[stickboy1375]

Are you kidding me you would have to drop an elephant on mc to damage it and the surrounding shield would short it out before anyone would get electrocuted much like the neutral wire surrounding service entrance cable. I am truly outraged at the ignorance.

Got any proof? :grin: I'm not trying to bust your chops, I use MC also, I'm just trying to get you to look outside box, NM is a perfectly good wiring system, your opinion just doesn't agree, but its fine, I know the old saying, You cant teach an old dog new tricks...