pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Foyers
JW
Other than his "yes" answer, did he explain why?
JW
Other than his "yes" answer, did he explain why?
Foyers
- Thread starter explorer136
- Start date
- Status
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: Foyers
He cited 210.52 (A) (1) & (2), stating that this was part of the bedroom and not a hall. He went on talking about a hall and what constituted a hall, but my knees was a knocking after approaching the panel with a pencil in hand and asking for a piece of paper to draw on it was all I could do to walk. As I turned to walk away all I could see was the audience and every one of them faces was looking right at me. I could hear every though they was thinking, ?Did you see that idiot go up to the panel like he owned the place.? Through the fear I was feeling I didn?t hear what he was saying about a hall, but I have approached a panel in front of a hundred or so people.
He cited 210.52 (A) (1) & (2), stating that this was part of the bedroom and not a hall. He went on talking about a hall and what constituted a hall, but my knees was a knocking after approaching the panel with a pencil in hand and asking for a piece of paper to draw on it was all I could do to walk. As I turned to walk away all I could see was the audience and every one of them faces was looking right at me. I could hear every though they was thinking, ?Did you see that idiot go up to the panel like he owned the place.? Through the fear I was feeling I didn?t hear what he was saying about a hall, but I have approached a panel in front of a hundred or so people.
Re: Foyers
This is not highly scientific, & is not stated in NEC as such but: always remember the 6-foot rule.
Think of a lamp or other type "thing" that the homeowner may wish to use. The "thing" has a 6-foot cord with male plug.
For practical safety arising out of the use of electrical power, & to discourage the use of extension cords (hidden under rugs, etc.) - I can certainly see why AHJ wants recept.(s) there.
From a design standpoint, I would give it serious consideration.
Are there enough receptacles in your tract home??
This is not highly scientific, & is not stated in NEC as such but: always remember the 6-foot rule.
Think of a lamp or other type "thing" that the homeowner may wish to use. The "thing" has a 6-foot cord with male plug.
For practical safety arising out of the use of electrical power, & to discourage the use of extension cords (hidden under rugs, etc.) - I can certainly see why AHJ wants recept.(s) there.
From a design standpoint, I would give it serious consideration.
Are there enough receptacles in your tract home??
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2023
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: Foyers
JW: You're a kindred spirit. I stand up in front of twelve people and get the shakes.
Allen: Take a stiff drink and have a seat! We're all friends here, we're trying to help!
The best answer to this is for you to go fight city hall. In the mean time, I'd like us to pool together and define this slippery bastard.
I think kiloamp7 is onto what could give us a definition. Six foot cords. Why are six foot cords not a consideration in a hallway?
Because our fat butts would be knocking over lamps in a hallway. So how wide does a hallway have to be before we quit knocking them over? In my opinion, I think that's a start.
Why do hallways longer than 10' require an outlet? I would argue, to vacuum. Vacuums have longer cords.
What other factors come into play in a hall? What cues tell us that it's a hall?
JW: You're a kindred spirit. I stand up in front of twelve people and get the shakes.
Allen: Take a stiff drink and have a seat! We're all friends here, we're trying to help!
The best answer to this is for you to go fight city hall. In the mean time, I'd like us to pool together and define this slippery bastard.
I think kiloamp7 is onto what could give us a definition. Six foot cords. Why are six foot cords not a consideration in a hallway?
Because our fat butts would be knocking over lamps in a hallway. So how wide does a hallway have to be before we quit knocking them over? In my opinion, I think that's a start.
Why do hallways longer than 10' require an outlet? I would argue, to vacuum. Vacuums have longer cords.
What other factors come into play in a hall? What cues tell us that it's a hall?
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Foyers
If we were not required to install receptacles in model A #1,then I feel that we shouldn`t have to install them in model a #2,3 or 4....I don`t have a problem with adding them .It`s alot cheaper to add them than get tagged send someone back to correct the tag send someone to pay the tag etc etc.But if it a hallway in model A #1 then it`s still a hall in model A #2 right
If we were not required to install receptacles in model A #1,then I feel that we shouldn`t have to install them in model a #2,3 or 4....I don`t have a problem with adding them .It`s alot cheaper to add them than get tagged send someone back to correct the tag send someone to pay the tag etc etc.But if it a hallway in model A #1 then it`s still a hall in model A #2 right
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Foyers
Originally posted by allenwayne:
But if it a hallway in model A #1 then it`s still a hall in model A #2 right
We did an office building that was only 3 floors but had a very large footprint, in fact it was in two different towns.
We independently supported all the fixtures in the suspended ceiling with 12 AWG steel tie wire.
It turns out the inspector in one of the towns does not accept 12 AWG steel tie wire, he only accepts 12 AWG jack chain.
Now a piece of 12 AWG steel tie wire will support my weight without a problem, 12 AWG jack chain will not, so which is better?
The end result here was we had to go back to over a 1000 fixtures and change the tie wire to jack chain. Now you can tell which town you are standing in by popping a ceiling tile to see if it is jack chain or tie wire.
By the way that was still easer than getting the final fire alarm inspections in a mall we did that is in three towns.
Approved and stamped prints from 3 different fire depts and still at the end we are changing, adding etc. to the fire alarm in order to pass 3 separate walk throughs.
Just because the FD stamps and approves the prints does not prevent them from making changes at the final inspections.
We have a dead line, the fire dept does not.
No sense crying about it, no time for that, get the stock shipped in, get the Fire panel programing guy out to make changes, stay late, and get the certificate of occupancy.
It can be a stressful profession at times....
[ February 08, 2005, 07:45 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: Foyers
Bob, what happend to the "Good old days" when a couple of Ben Franklins could fix those kinds of problems.
Bob, what happend to the "Good old days" when a couple of Ben Franklins could fix those kinds of problems.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Foyers
[ February 08, 2005, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
My Dad was a plumber and he remembers those days when that was a necessity in Boston.Originally posted by electricmanscott:
Bob, what happend to the "Good old days" when a couple of Ben Franklins could fix those kinds of problems.
[ February 08, 2005, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: Foyers
I'm actually too young to remember those days but I have heard. I thought that might be the mall. There are signs outside to mark the town lines. I never even thought about permitting issues in a situation like that. Pretty interesting.
I'm actually too young to remember those days but I have heard. I thought that might be the mall. There are signs outside to mark the town lines. I never even thought about permitting issues in a situation like that. Pretty interesting.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: Foyers
I assume you didn't want to go for the easy money!
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Foyers
By the way, in the interest of honesty I should mention that I was not personally involved in either of the jobs I described. I am only going by what I heard through the grapevine. Still I have no reason to doubt what I was told.
By the way, in the interest of honesty I should mention that I was not personally involved in either of the jobs I described. I am only going by what I heard through the grapevine. Still I have no reason to doubt what I was told.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Foyers
Oh it happened and the check cleared
Oh it happened and the check cleared
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Foyers
Title Town U.S.A!
Yes, I'm from New England.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2023
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: Foyers
So, clever intelligent guys I learn from on a regular basis, care to chip in on the ole hallway problem?
If you were to write it out, how would you define a hallway? The NEC has made it clear they're special setting 210.52(H) aside for them and leaving them out a wall space requirements. There was an agenda at one time, and somebody fell asleep before it was attained.
36" wide, full of doorways?
[ February 08, 2005, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
So, clever intelligent guys I learn from on a regular basis, care to chip in on the ole hallway problem?
If you were to write it out, how would you define a hallway? The NEC has made it clear they're special setting 210.52(H) aside for them and leaving them out a wall space requirements. There was an agenda at one time, and somebody fell asleep before it was attained.
36" wide, full of doorways?
[ February 08, 2005, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Foyers
OK try this ,using nec i could design a bed room with NO receptacles.Use you heads and figure out how
OK try this ,using nec i could design a bed room with NO receptacles.Use you heads and figure out how
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Foyers
nope cant get out of switch or smoke
Almost be fun to see inspectors face
nope cant get out of switch or smoke
Almost be fun to see inspectors face
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Foyers
Allen
I can feel your frustration, and I sympathize. With so many homes going up, can you take a set of prints, marked up, to the inspectors and get their blessing on locations prior to starting?
I know that our company would consider it, as when your job goes smoothly, so does ours.
Allen
I can feel your frustration, and I sympathize. With so many homes going up, can you take a set of prints, marked up, to the inspectors and get their blessing on locations prior to starting?
I know that our company would consider it, as when your job goes smoothly, so does ours.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Foyers
Pierre in a way this does happen,Prior to permitting the plan is submitted to plan review board it goes through all trades at the county building suposedly . then after that a permit is issued... Like I posted pages ago,a hall is a hall is a hall doesn`t matter home 1 or 101.That`s what frustrates me the most !!!!!!!!!!Whe are talking cookie cutter homes here not custom entirely different floor plans from home to home ???
Pierre in a way this does happen,Prior to permitting the plan is submitted to plan review board it goes through all trades at the county building suposedly . then after that a permit is issued...
Like I posted pages ago,a hall is a hall is a hall doesn`t matter home 1 or 101.That`s what frustrates me the most !!!!!!!!!!Whe are talking cookie cutter homes here not custom entirely different floor plans from home to home ??? - Status