Foyers

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Re: Foyers

Allenwayne,

I'm going to mention this again. But now I'm going to phrase it as a question.

Have you asked your building department to make a determination on the issue?

This is not personal, I simply don't beleive it's all that willie nillie.
 
Re: Foyers

Originally posted by physis:
Allenwayne,

I'm going to mention this again. But now I'm going to phrase it as a question.

Have you asked your building department to make a determination on the issue?

This is not personal, I simply don't beleive it's all that willie nillie.
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As a matter of fact I did contact the chief building inspector and he baby faced and told me that the required electrical receptacle outlets would be at the discretion of the electrical inspector.As far as that WILLIE NILLIE goes well lets just say that there are others in his own dept.that would throw a party if he was to dissapear tomorrow ;)
 
Re: Foyers

Did hear about 10 years ago about a inspector that was threatened to be thrown off a high rise,he resigned real fast. ;)

[ February 10, 2005, 05:56 AM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
 
Re: Foyers

As a matter of fact I did contact the chief building inspector and he baby faced and told me that the required electrical receptacle outlets would be at the discretion of the electrical inspector.
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He doesn't deserve the title of chief. Because he's not one.

I guess that leaves you with satisfying 210.52(A)
 
Re: Foyers

This is the same inspector that called this AHJ 1 day before Christmas when I had $300.00/HR. there to go through 16 finals and told him to let me make any corrections needed and to pass the inspections.(He recieved a call from a C.M. that was a former building inspector that is now a C.M. for a nationwide builder based in CA.He told him I had all these guys there and that the homes were to close before New Year)Oh he was going to red tag me $30.00 for a gfci sticker!Drywall punch was done and painted and the cleaners put the plates back on 6 ft away was a nook receptacle with the countertop plate with the sticker and the countertop plate didn`t have one on it :( :mad: :eek:
 
Re: Foyers

Allen, as I see it you've got two options.

1. Move away from this nutjob.

2. Call Vinny the Fish. :D

[ February 10, 2005, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
 
Heads up! I'm breathing life into a thread from the scrolls:

explorer136 said:
I would like to know if a large Foyers is considered living space or a hallway when applying the previsions of NEC 210.52 for useable wall space.
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From the 2008 ROP:

2-195 Log #397 NEC-P02 Final Action: Reject​
(210.52(A))Submitter: Bradly Shoaf, Davidson County Community College
Recommendation: Revise text to read as follows:
General Provisions states that, in every kitchen, family room, dining room, living room, parlor, library, den and foyers and unoccupied wall space of laundry room, or similar room or areas of dwelling units, receptacles outlets shall be installed according to 210.52(A).
Substantiation: Convenience receptacles will be required for these areas of dwelling units. With the addition of these areas 210.52(A) will reduce the possibilities of a homeowner running a extension cord under a rug and through the foyer room. All receptacles should be placed in as easily accessible location.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: The submitter’s concern about the receptacle outlet requirements in foyer areas is already addressed in 210.52(H). The submitter has not substantiated the requirement to add additional receptacles in the laundry space.
Number Eligible to Vote: 12
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 11 Negative: 1
Explanation of Negative:


KING, D.:​

This proposal should have been accepted in part. The submitter’s recommendation to require receptacles to be installed in foyers in accordance with section 210.52(A) is warranted. I disagree with the panel statement where it states that the submitter’s concerns are addressed in 210.52(H). There are many foyers that are comprised of separate wall spaces that are divided by doors and open entryways to adjacent rooms. These separate wall spaces in many cases are 2 or more feet in width. The dimensions of these foyers in any one direction may not be 10 or more feet in length, thus making the provisions of 210.52(H) not applicable. With this scenario it is possible to have separate wall spaces that are large enough in width to require a receptacle(s) to be installed under the provisions of section 210.52(A). The absence of a requirement for receptacle outlets in these locations would require the use of extension cords to supply power to lamps or other utilization equipment that may be used at these wall spaces as is indicated in the submitter’s substantiation. This would greatly increase the risk of fire due to arcing faults from damaged cords placed across doorways end entryways to provide power to these wall spaces. Requiring foyers to comply with 210.52(A) is warranted and should be given further consideration by Panel 2.​
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So, I suppose officially under the 2005, according to CMP-2, foyers are hallways, not rooms falling under 210.52(A). :)
 
The issue of is it a hallway or living space has been a debate I have endured for years now.To me if the approved floor plan calls a room a mechanical room and another a living room one must conform to spacing and one doesn`t.So if an area is called a hallway then it is just that a hallway.One receptacle if 10+ ft.But to get an AHJ to think along these lines has been a battle I still go through.Some inspectors have been quite reasonable while some have been not as sensible.Until the NEC clarifies what constitutes a hall/foyer/entryway this will be a thorn we step on over and over.
 
allenwayne said:
The issue of is it a hallway or living space has been a debate I have endured for years now.To me if the approved floor plan calls a room a mechanical room and another a living room one must conform to spacing and one doesn`t.So if an area is called a hallway then it is just that a hallway.One receptacle if 10+ ft.But to get an AHJ to think along these lines has been a battle I still go through.Some inspectors have been quite reasonable while some have been not as sensible.Until the NEC clarifies what constitutes a hall/foyer/entryway this will be a thorn we step on over and over.
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Then please send in a comment expressing your opinion on the matter.
 
Allen how many homes didn't get the outlet???

The reason I ask is , if those folks get wind that house 4 has a foyer receptacle , those in houses 1,2,3, might feel a little cheated and demand one as well, required or not.
 
jwelectric said:
Then please send in a comment expressing your opinion on the matter.
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And be sure to use spellcheck, the return key and the space bar at the appropriate times. :D :eek: ;)

Where the heck was Roger on that one?!? :D
 
M. D. said:
Allen how many homes didn't get the outlet???

The reason I ask is , if those folks get wind that house 4 has a foyer receptacle , those in houses 1,2,3, might feel a little cheated and demand one as well, required or not.
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As far as the actual number of homes is not definitive but there are a bunch out there.This was in one area in a gated upscale community where midstream the inspector changed.The area in which the recep was being required was at the bottom of the stairs in a hallway that linked 3 bedrooms the stairs and a bathroom ,that led into a family room through a archway.There is an area about 6 ft X 5 ft at the bottom of the stairs.The new inspector insisted it was living space and must meet standard spacing.I argued,lost and the receptacles were added.As far as other home owners complaining well they can take that up with the builder since at the time of the electrical inspection on thier homes it was compliant and passed.I`ve been part of 100`s of tract home communities and understand what happens when a homeowner sees another home that is done in a different manner but this was just something that the new inspector insisted on and oh well it was done and nothing else will change prior homes short of sombody footing the bill.
 
George,Ihaven'tbeenkeepingupwiththisthreadbecauseIcan'treadAllenese. :D

Roger
 
In my opinion, the plans should override the inspector's opinion, especially if inspectors can and do cite installations that don't conform to the plans.
 
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