Garage GFCI Receptacles

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hillbilly1 said:
I don't use 14 ga, so it's not a problem on the houses I wire.:)
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6 amps X 2 is 12 amps-- it is more than 50%. With one door you are fine. Again mine was an old door opener.

I have also done homes with 3 GDO. It can be ridiculous if they are 7 amps and you need 2 circuits for something that is on for a few sec.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
6 amps X 2 is 12 amps-- it is more than 50%. With one door you are fine. Again mine was an old door opener.

I have also done homes with 3 GDO. It can be ridiculous if they are 7 amps and you need 2 circuits for something that is on for a few sec.
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Couldn't you supply the two doors with one 15 amp circuit but nothing else?
 
infinity said:
Couldn't you supply the two doors with one 15 amp circuit but nothing else?
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Yes , of course, but the posters were talking about using a standard gfci on the wall in the garage. IMO, that make 210.23 active and the install non compliant- this is why you must use a dead front.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
6 amps X 2 is 12 amps-- it is more than 50%. With one door you are fine. Again mine was an old door opener.

I have also done homes with 3 GDO. It can be ridiculous if they are 7 amps and you need 2 circuits for something that is on for a few sec.
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It's cord and plug connected, not hardwired, also it is a non-continous motor load. It can also be calculated as a motor feeder.
 
hillbilly1 said:
I'm not saying anything is wrong with wiring a house with #14, but #12 is a better quality job, and that's what my customers want, not the run of the mill romex yanker. (And their willing to pay for better quality too)
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I'd think that the term 'quality' as you're using it is pretty subjective.

If the wire is properly protected, and the lights are split up on more separate circuits so one fault affects fewer outlets you could claim that you've provided a higher quality system.

Personally, I try to put all fixed lighting outlets and associated switching on 14 awg, for ease of wiring in switchboxes and fans, and all general-purpose receptacles on #12 due to 1200 and 1500 watt heaters and the like.
 
hillbilly1 said:
I'm not saying anything is wrong with wiring a house with #14, but #12 is a better quality job, and that's what my customers want, not the run of the mill romex yanker. (And their willing to pay for better quality too)
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I still have yet to see anyone actually quantify how an all #12 house is 'better'.
 
hillbilly1 said:
1. Less voltage drop
2. Higher available circuit capacity
3. Higher resistance to failure from physical damage
Just to name a few
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So why not use #10? If 12 is so much better, 10 would be that much closer to nirvana.


Less voltage drop...... assuming the same number of outlets per circuit. Most don't wire with 12 that way. They use less circuits.

Higher circuit capacity... again, falls apart when you add more loads to less circuits.

Higher resistance to physical damage? Huh? Someone actually tested how much force it takes to damage 14 compared to 12? Where's the stats on that one?
 
I know we're getting a little off-topic with the #12 vs #14 thing, but I always thought it was funny how we need a 20 amp circuit in the dining room which hardly anybody even uses anymore vs a 15 amp circuit in the living room that is loaded with lights and electronics.
 
I have been told by a person who is a member of at least one CMP (I don’t know if it is the CMP in charge of this issue) that the intent of requiring GFCI devices to be readily accessible is to give the homeowner a reasonable opportunity to test the darn things once a month, as we are all supposed to do. A dead-front GFCI device that is within reach and that supplies standard receptacle(s) at ceiling height for the use of garage door opener(s) would comply with that requirement. And if there were no other outlets on that circuit, then 210.23 would allow the total load of all the openers to equal the branch circuit rating.

It took me a while to understand, and ultimately (sigh :angel: ) agree with Dennis, that if you put a GFCI receptacle within reach, and feed the door openers from there, the load limit on the openers becomes 50% of the branch circuit rating.
 
480sparky said:
So why not use #10? If 12 is so much better, 10 would be that much closer to nirvana.


Less voltage drop...... assuming the same number of outlets per circuit. Most don't wire with 12 that way. They use less circuits.

Higher circuit capacity... again, falls apart when you add more loads to less circuits.

Higher resistance to physical damage? Huh? Someone actually tested how much force it takes to damage 14 compared to 12? Where's the stats on that one?
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I know I will not change your perception on this, but not everyone use #12 to cut corners by adding more receptacles per circuit, only those that use #14 to cut cost would. Less voltage drop, plug that air compressor into the garage receptacle, with the panel at the other end of the house in the basement, and watch it struggle to start on the #14. (I have actually had that problem on a remodel)The higher circuit capacity is exactly that, you can use more stuff without tripping. The higher resistance to damage comes from when your helper nicks a #14 when they strip it, it will break at that point much easier than a #12 with the same nick.
 
hillbilly1 said:
......... The higher resistance to damage comes from when your helper nicks a #14 when they strip it, it will break at that point much easier than a #12 with the same nick.
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So #14 is a poor product because a helper hasn't been trained properly on how to strip it?
 
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