Garage recpt outlets Exterior

[ritelec]

Hello,
Came across 210.52 (G)(1)

Thought I was paying attention during the ceu class, but for whatever reason missed this..

Am I understanding this correctly..

Attached garages must have a receptacle outlet and that outlets circuit can not supply exterior lighting or receptacle outlets..??
That receptacle circuit however can supply anything else in the garage or rest of the house that doesn't have it's own requirements? ...

Detached garage if has electric must have a receptacle.. and again, that circuit can not feed outside lighting outlet or receptacle...??
If so.......... sounds like it should me mandatory to say that Two 120v (or one multi wire branch) circs are required to a detached garage with electric power (one for inside outlets, one for outside stuff)

If I'm correct in reading this, what could be the reasoning behind this...


As a note for attached or detached garage... it say's that branch circuit "shall not to supply outlets outside of GARAGE"..... SO...... if attached, that circuit should also be able to feed outside receptacle outlets and lighting outlets if those outlets are NOT by the garage, correct? AND if a detached garage that had some storage area constructed to it... should external outlets from that circuit be permissible located at that part of the building?

Thank you

 

[kwired]

Interesting situation I never thought of.

Yes as worded 210.52(G)(1) requires at least one 15 or 20 amp 120 volt receptacle in the garage - or one for each car space. Such outlet circuits can supply other outlets inside the garage but not outside. This presents a problem for the detached garage with only one branch circuit supplied to it (other then when a MWBC is used).

Next thing is what is intended to be included in definition of a garage? We have an art 100 definition of garage - but did they really intend to include a 8x8 shed that the only thing qualifying it as a garage per that definition is that it normally houses a small self propelled lawn mower?? Some of the recent changes were in relation to the possibility of electric powered vehicles and the need to charge them.

 

[K8MHZ]

I did a quick Google and found there was talk of allowing an outdoor receptacle if it was on a 20 amp circuit.

So, it didn't happen, apparently?

 

[Henley]

See the ROP discussed

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=157139

 

[ritelec]

See the ROP discussed

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=157139

Thank you for the link..

Doesn't quite answer it though...

the ROP seemed to be about "what if's"

From what I see of it, 210.52(G)(1) makes no mention of separate circuit to the garage inside lighting and receptacle "outlets" 15a or 20a..
seams to be "any" ole 15 or 20 amp circ... as long as it doesn't extend outside....

I'm thinking the code means outside as in you look up and see the sky, not outside the garage as anywhere else not in that area..??

?

Hmmm
somethings missing.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Sounds to me like another politically motivated code. I have yet to see a new home without a outlet.
To have to place a outlet near each car because what...... so that you won't use an extension cord. How will that work if the garage is very deep or wide. You may still need a cord.
Besides charging with a 110 outlet is the lowest form of charging you can use. These new high amp hour batteries will undoubtedly require 240 and high amp connections to fully charge a car.

They should do it like CA would.. You must add a conduit or cable of sufficient size to accomodate the future need. ..... That will be coming I bet in the next Title 24.
Politically motivated IMHO.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Outside does not mean outdoors only. It means anything outside of the garage itself

 

[jxofaltrds]

Outside does not mean outdoors only. It means anything outside of the garage itself

If my garage ceiling light was on the garage circuit the switch for my light would:

1. Have to be in the garage

true or false?

 

[mjf]

If my garage ceiling light was on the garage circuit the switch for my light would:

1. Have to be in the garage

true or false?

Once again this brings up the debate as to whether or not a switch is utilization equipment. If not considered utilization equipment then the switchbox is not an outlet and the switch would not need to be located in the garage.

 

[ritelec]

Outside does not mean outdoors only. It means anything outside of the garage itself

where do you look to find how "they" use a word.. (noun,adjective,preposition adverb?) :- )

with in the scope of this article.. If one circuit is brought out for internal outlets and that article is satisfied .. can another circ be brought out for additional outlets "inside" AND outside?

 

[ritelec]

This isn't making sense..

The garage is a "whole"
both inside and outside the garage.


"The branch circuit supplying this receptacle(s) shall not supply outlets outside of the garage."

So is it outside, away from the interior of the garage? It doesn't say that.

The garage is a "whole", interior an exterior.........should not this circuit then be able to supply outlets on the exterior of the garage which is not outside of the garage...?

 

[mjf]

This isn't making sense..

The garage is a "whole"
both inside and outside the garage.


"The branch circuit supplying this receptacle(s) shall not supply outlets outside of the garage."

So is it outside, away from the interior of the garage? It doesn't say that.

The garage is a "whole", interior an exterior.........should not this circuit then be able to supply outlets on the exterior of the garage which is not outside of the garage...?

I agree with you......except......it brings up the issue on an attached garage, at least 1 "outside" garage wall will also be an "interior" living space wall.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Once again this brings up the debate as to whether or not a switch is utilization equipment. If not considered utilization equipment then the switchbox is not an outlet and the switch would not need to be located in the garage.

"Utilization Equipment" as defined in Article 100 is not where the "Outlet" is located. Think about a "Receptacle Outlet". . . it is NOT utilization equipment, yet, it IS an "Outlet.". . . "the point on the wiring system at which current is taken. . .". . . not the point on the wiring that is utilization equipment.

 

[al hildenbrand]

The garage is a "whole"
both inside and outside the garage.

The text of the NEC is a bit unclear, I agree.

Where I work, the State of Minnesota electrical AHJ has reduced the question of the OP to a Frequently Asked Question: #5

5. Question: Per NEC Section 210.52(G)(1) the branch circuit supplying a garage is not permitted to supply outlets outside of the garage. Can the receptacles or luminaires mounted on the exterior of the garage be supplied by this branch circuit?

Answer: Yes
Electric vehicles (EV) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEV) are popular; however the use of an electric vehicle is not mandatory. Requiring an individual circuit that may never be used does not address an electrical safety concern. The individual branch circuit supplying the garage receptacle(s) is not permitted to serve outlets aside from those at the garage. Additional receptacles and luminaires installed inside or on the exterior of garage walls may be supplied by the individual branch circuit supplying the garage receptacle(s).

 

[mjf]

"Utilization Equipment" as defined in Article 100 is not where the "Outlet" is located. Think about a "Receptacle Outlet". . . it is NOT utilization equipment, yet, it IS an "Outlet.". . . "the point on the wiring system at which current is taken. . .". . . not the point on the wiring that is utilization equipment.

Thanks....I screwed up my definitions:slaphead:.

A switch box is not an outlet then, since no current is taken.

 

[al hildenbrand]

. . . since no current is taken.

That's the sticking point. But this is re-hashing the "Big Oops," thread. I believe an outlet occurs in a simple snap switch when it is used as a Controller, per the last sentence in the definition of Premises Wiring (System).

What do you think about the Minnesota AHJ's take on the Garage circuit from 2014 NEC 210.52(G)(1)?

 

[ActionDave]

What do you think about the Minnesota AHJ's take on the Garage circuit from 2014 NEC 210.52(G)(1)?

I like it. I hope it catches on.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

where do you look to find how "they" use a word.. (noun,adjective,preposition adverb?) :- )

with in the scope of this article.. If one circuit is brought out for internal outlets and that article is satisfied .. can another circ be brought out for additional outlets "inside" AND outside?

You all are making a mountain out of a mole hill, IMO. If they did not want the garage tied to an exterior outlet then they would have said the garage is not to be connected to exterior receptacles or lights. That IMO, makes no sense. The idea is to keep the garage circuit separate and they probably should have said that.

I may be wrong but that is how I see it

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The key, IMO is that the code states "outside the garage"-- not outside or outdoors. If it is an attached garage then the house would be outside the garage.

 

[mjf]

That's the sticking point. But this is re-hashing the "Big Oops," thread. I believe an outlet occurs in a simple snap switch when it is used as a Controller, per the last sentence in the definition of Premises Wiring (System).

What do you think about the Minnesota AHJ's take on the Garage circuit from 2014 NEC 210.52(G)(1)?

I think it is effective and clearly written!!