Garbage Disposal Receptacle GFCI?

[The Great Sarducci]

Hello all,

Quick question. Does a standard 15A dedicated under-counter garbage disposal receptacle need to be a GFCI? This is the typical setup for garbage disp. where the duplex is split so one outlet is switched at the counter top (I really don't think this makes any difference whatsoever. I just like to be overkill on details). I've been using the code for years, and until a co-worker challenged me on it, ALWAYS went GFCI with the disposal outlet. But I'm not seeing it too clearly in the NEC, and now I'm worried that he may be right (he says not needed because not in a readily accessible location for frequent connect/disconnect). Honestly I'm just not feeling to swift on that. I'm sure you guys can settle this one for me.

Thanks,
Ryan

 

[ken44]

Since GFCI is now required for a Dishwasher, I don't see any difference for a garbage disposal.

 

[charlie b]

Since GFCI is now required for a Dishwasher, I don't see any difference for a garbage disposal.

Well, one difference is that the code explicitly requires it for one, but not for the other. On the other hand, some would interpret the "within 6 feet of a sink" rule to include the receptacle that serves the disposal, since that receptacle is within a 6 foot straight line from the edge of the sink. I don't agree with this interpretation. I prefer the "will a 6 foot cord reach from the receptacle to the sink" interpretation.

 

[mopowr steve]

As written in the 2014 code, the garbage disposal would require gfci protection and that gfci protection must be in a readily accessible location oh and don't forget 2014 also requires arc fault protection to all kitchen circuits 15/20a @ 120v.

This leaves you pretty much with 2 scenarios
1- put a dead front gfci somewhere on the wall or cabinets and also have a arc fault breaker or
2- put in a dual function breaker (arc fault and gfci) and cover both bases.

 

[charlie b]

As written in the 2014 code, the garbage disposal would require gfci protection . . . .

May I ask how you arrived at that conclusion? 210.8 does not require it (unless you are using the "within 6 feet of a sink" rule), and neither does 422.16(B)(1).

 

[mopowr steve]

May I ask how you arrived at that conclusion? 210.8 does not require it (unless you are using the "within 6 feet of a sink" rule), and neither does 422.16(B)(1).

Yes, I am referring to the 6' rule as it usually applies since it is to be "all encompassing" and if that doesn't get you then the manufacturers instructions may require it.

 

[al hildenbrand]

I prefer the "will a 6 foot cord reach from the receptacle to the sink" interpretation.

As written in the 2014 code, the garbage disposal would require gfci protection

May I ask how you arrived at that conclusion?

Whether there are doors on the undersink compartment, or not, it is interpreted by my State-wide AHJ that a six foot cord, plugged into a sink disposal receptacle, located pretty much anywhere in the undersink compartment, will always reach out and around the front of the sink countertop and into the bowl of the sink. Therefore 210.8 does require the GFCI.

 

[iwire]

Whether there are doors on the undersink compartment, or not, it is interpreted by my State-wide AHJ that a six foot cord, plugged into a sink disposal receptacle, located pretty much anywhere in the undersink compartment, will always reach out and around the front of the sink countertop and into the bowl of the sink. Therefore 210.8 does require the GFCI.

Here in MA I believe they felt the wording in the NEC requires that as well so they added an amendment that specifies the measurement does not pass through doorways, cabinets or walls.

In other words I agree with you, just MA went a different direction with it.

 

[ken44]

Well, one difference is that the code explicitly requires it for one, but not for the other. On the other hand, some would interpret the "within 6 feet of a sink" rule to include the receptacle that serves the disposal, since that receptacle is within a 6 foot straight line from the edge of the sink. I don't agree with this interpretation. I prefer the "will a 6 foot cord reach from the receptacle to the sink" interpretation.

Regardless, the NEC is a minimum standard and I would like to think that common sense could prevail; you have an electric motor connected to a metal sink that has water draining through it, that seems like a good case for a GFCI to me and makes me wonder why it hasn't been captured by all of the safety experts yet?

 

[charlie b]

. . . makes me wonder why it hasn't been captured by all of the safety experts yet?

I can think of two reasons. (1) That there have not been reported incidents in which this has led to an injury, and (2) That the manufacturers of the GFCI devices have not yet been able to sell the idea to the code making panels.

 

[jap]

Regardless, the NEC is a minimum standard and I would like to think that common sense could prevail; you have an electric motor connected to a metal sink that has water draining through it, that seems like a good case for a GFCI to me and makes me wonder why it hasn't been captured by all of the safety experts yet?

A good case could be made for all Electrical equipment to require GFCI Protection whether it has water running through it or not, and year by year we get closer and closer to this actually happening.

JAP>

 

[JFletcher]

Regardless, the NEC is a minimum standard and I would like to think that common sense could prevail; you have an electric motor connected to a metal sink that has water draining through it, that seems like a good case for a GFCI to me and makes me wonder why it hasn't been captured by all of the safety experts yet?

Are any disposals isolated from the sink by PVC couplers/fittings/pipe? It's not so much that the water/metal/motor combo bothers me as much as that disposals are going to see metal utensils get caught in them and the HO goes to remove it... I guess those little buggers are sturdier than we think, or HOs are too embarassed to admit they got a shock while trying to retrieve a mangled spork from a disposal.

 

[jap]

Are any disposals isolated from the sink by PVC couplers/fittings/pipe? It's not so much that the water/metal/motor combo bothers me as much as that disposals are going to see metal utensils get caught in them and the HO goes to remove it... I guess those little buggers are sturdier than we think, or HOs are too embarassed to admit they got a shock while trying to retrieve a mangled spork from a disposal.

There's nothing electrical in the chomping part of a garbage disposal.If a home owner got shocked by trying to retrieve a mangled spork from a disoposal that would pretty well mean that the fork penetrated the housing of the disposal and got into the windings of the motor or something similar which would be a total disposal catastrophe I've yet to witnesss.

JAP>

 

[iwire]

Regardless, the NEC is a minimum standard and I would like to think that common sense could prevail; you have an electric motor connected to a metal sink that has water draining through it, that seems like a good case for a GFCI to me and makes me wonder why it hasn't been captured by all of the safety experts yet?

Because it is not a safety issue.

Would you also want GFCIs with water heaters and clothes washers?

The NEC now requires GFCIs for dishwashers but this gets weird, it is not to protect people from shocks it is to protect people from the fires that can happen at the end of the poorly designed products life.

This change was requested by the manufacturer and fires where the reason given.

Instead of designing the product better they simply asked for, and got more sensitive ground fault protection. :rant:

 

[norcal]

Because it is not a safety issue.

Would you also want GFCIs with water heaters and clothes washers?

The NEC now requires GFCIs for dishwashers but this gets weird, it is not to protect people from shocks it is to protect people from the fires that can happen at the end of the poorly designed products life.

This change was requested by the manufacturer and fires where the reason given.

Instead of designing the product better they simply asked for, and got more sensitive ground fault protection. :rant:

Appliances are becoming garbage right out of the box, or should I say shrink wrap on some, gone are the days when if one so desired, you could use a appliance for 30+ years, my kitchen range was a Frigidaire "Flair" that had dates on the controls from 1965, & a late 1970's Whirlpool fridge, the range still worked but was donated to the local ReStore & sold the same day, compressor died on the other a few years ago, if some of the quality was still there, the higher efficiency of today's appliances would be more worthwhile, instead of being sent to the landfill or tin pile at the nearest scrapyard after a short lifetime.

 

[mwm1752]

Well, one difference is that the code explicitly requires it for one, but not for the other. On the other hand, some would interpret the "within 6 feet of a sink" rule to include the receptacle that serves the disposal, since that receptacle is within a 6 foot straight line from the edge of the sink. I don't agree with this interpretation. I prefer the "will a 6 foot cord reach from the receptacle to the sink" interpretation.

NEC 2017 will follow your thought pattern Charlie not to penetrate doors or cabinets

 

[jap]

To me judging where a GFI outlet needs to be placed in relationship to a sink by the length of a cord is silly.


JAP>

 

[mwm1752]

To me judging where a GFI outlet needs to be placed in relationship to a sink by the length of a cord is silly.


JAP>

I guess f you can plug it in you can drop it into the sink filled with water

 

[jap]

I guess f you can plug it in you can drop it into the sink filled with water

Not really.
That all depends on the length of the appliance attached to the end of the cord, not the cord itself.


JAP>

 

[iwire]

To me judging where a GFI outlet needs to be placed in relationship to a sink by the length of a cord is silly.


JAP>

To me that actually makes perfect sense and I am sure why 6' was chosen.

Here in MA we have an amendment that says more or less 'the measurement will be the shortest path a 6' cord could take without passing through walls, doors or other barriers' To me this is logical and a good amendment.