General can light question...

[c2500]

A new house I am currently wiring has a problem. The I-Joist designer has succesfully managed to screw everything up. A joist dead center in the main hallway. Every toilet hits a joist (not my problem but you get the idea) I still imagine the perfect world where a house is completely thought out...but I digress....

Anyway, I cannot make the math work with Halo 6's, or 5s in the kitchen. Does anyone know of another brand, that including the bracket, can get you closer than 3 1/2 inches to the joist? I am considering just running the wire and go back with remodel cans once the drywall is up.

As always, any input will be appreciated.

c2500

 

[stickboy1375]

I-joist designer???? just re design the recess layout...

 

[electricmanscott]

Cut in a remodel can on the finish.

 

[mdshunk]

The Progress P87's I normally use you can get smack up against a joist on the one side.

 

[c2500]

I-joist designer???? just re design the recess layout...

I'd love to redesign it...but when the homeowner has a plan that cannot be changed, it presents few options. The I-joist designer was some guy using a canned software package at a lumber yard. They give no thought to where the joists fall. And unlike regular lumber, you dont have the option of headering them to correct layout issues.

c2500

 

[c2500]

The Progress P87's I normally use you can get smack up against a joist on the one side.

Thanks Marc!

 

[iaov]

I can't help much but I can sympithise. I see this quite a bit with home plans that come from the big chain stores. Whoever does the electrical drawings has no idea where the joists,trusses, etc. are located. They draw pictures of lights/fitures in what looks like good spots having not a clue as to wether or not they will fit. I had a hall like this recently. Joist running right down the middle. No way to put cans up without them looking silly. Plans called for three cans going down the middle. I ended up putting four,5 in. cans up . I put one on each side of the joist. Didn't look too bad and I charged the HO for the extra can!:smile:

 

[mdshunk]

I've done a "zig-zag" effect with the cans in a hall like that already. The first time I did it, the end product looked like crap. I did it a second time, because I forgot that the first time around looked like crap. Now, I remember.

 

[stickboy1375]

I'd love to redesign it...but when the homeowner has a plan that cannot be changed, it presents few options. The I-joist designer was some guy using a canned software package at a lumber yard. They give no thought to where the joists fall. And unlike regular lumber, you dont have the option of headering them to correct layout issues.

c2500

AND? You cant have your cake and eat it too, either readjust the layout or simply tell them it cant be done... I run into this problem in just about every kitchen I do, the joist layout never works with recess. I do my layout with what works best with what I've been handed to me... just my opinion of course.

 

[marcerrin]

I run into this all the time. If the homeowner or GC is picky about lighting layout, we have the carpenter cut the joist and head it off where the cans are going.

 

[mdshunk]

I've had to the the GC or carpenter header off and frame in an area for certain cans that "had to be" in a certain exact place. This can sometimes make for some pretty wild framing (doubled up joists on each side of the header area, etc.) just to get a can in a certain spot to shine on their statue or artwork or whatever.

 

[e57]

Any good/experienced GC would have spotted this during framing.... And if this "I-joist Designer" had an iota of experience past the math for the loads above - he would have too..... So let me guess - they didn't line up the KO's either?!?!? :roll:

Now I'm going to make a suggestion that may be beyond the scope of your position in the design side of it all.... Allow me to install my 'lisp'....

Surface mounted ceiling and wall sconces.....

Often much more ambient light output per, over a 1/2 dozen cans..... And 'pretty' if you get some nice ones.... :grin:

 

[stickboy1375]

So let me guess - they didn't line up the KO's either?!?!? :roll: [/U][/I][/B]

I could care less about the pre manufactured holes, I drill my own anyways...

 

[c2500]

AND? You cant have your cake and eat it too, either readjust the layout or simply tell them it cant be done... I run into this problem in just about every kitchen I do, the joist layout never works with recess. I do my layout with what works best with what I've been handed to me... just my opinion of course.

Stickboy,

I agree. :grin: However the homeowner is a neighbor and friend. If I can get to the edge of the joist with a can his layout will work. I know I can do it with a remodel can. And I am going to check out the cans Marc suggested. Turns out a supply house I have recently started dealing with should have them. So I will at least check it out. If not, I will get him to redesign or use remodels. Or I will scare his wife into thinking she won't be in by Christmas and then he will come around to my way of thinking.:grin:

c2500

 

[mdshunk]

I could care less about the pre manufactured holes, I drill my own anyways...

Same here, but mainly because you can beat on some of them pretty hard for a good while before they'll break free. A silver dollar sized knockout on one side turns into a softball sized blowout on the other side. They might as well not put in knockouts, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[stickboy1375]

Same here, but mainly because you can beat on some of them pretty hard for a good while before they'll break free. A silver dollar sized knockout on one side turns into a softball sized blowout on the other side. They might as well not put in knockouts, as far as I'm concerned.

Marc what do you prefer to use for drilling I-joist? I usually use a self-feed bit, 1 1/4", but I hear a unibit works quite well?

 

[mdshunk]

Marc what do you prefer to use for drilling I-joist? I usually use a self-feed bit, 1 1/4", but I hear a unibit works quite well?

I never had much luck with the sel-feed bits in i joist webs. Too hard to grab the screw. A step bit will fly right though. I have this little wooden jig made up that latches on my cordless to keep all the holes at the same height.

 

[c2500]

Any good/experienced GC would have spotted this during framing.... And if this "I-joist Designer" had an iota of experience past the math for the loads above - he would have too..... So let me guess - they didn't line up the KO's either?!?!? :roll:

Well, I am a licensed residential builder (and residential electrician). I did not however, have anything to do with the framing. (I normally avoid new construction and just do remodels and I was out of town when they started :grin: ) The architect drew it, and the lumber yard designed it. No headering allowed. The guy over the framing is a builder, and yes I think he should have caught the problem. I have a feeling the framers are going to be getting real creative to overcome the toilet issues (mainly if they want to get paid). If the walls had been 2x4 instead of 2x6 things would be better. Maybe I should let the manufacturer know they have a flaw in their software?

The biggest thing though is that this is another example of the trades not talking ahead of time.

c2500

 

[stickboy1375]

I never had much luck with the sel-feed bits in i joist webs. Too hard to grab the screw. A step bit will fly right though.

I never had a prob with the self-feed bits, as long as they are sharp, (other than the mess they make) but I will try the step bits next time around...

 

[480sparky]

I have yet to see a framer who gives a tinkers' d**n about where the joists, studs, headers, etc. lay out in relationship to lights, drains, etc. They firmly believe there is no life beyond the A sheets.