Generator for a well pump

[ptonsparky]

The current will be flowing on the 10 awg white wire and/or the 10 awg green wire in the generator cord and not much else. Once it reaches the MBJ, current flow in the rest of the house will be normal.

Just like it does in Kwires example.
Sure it works, but should you?

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

I run the backup “ag” well off a 3500 watt cheapo champion. I think it’s a 1.5 hp. Been a while since I installed it.

The main house at the ranch uses a 7500 watt inverter portable (because I still haven’t connected the 26kW Generac yet, but that’s another story) and it runs the house plus the main well pump plus the pressure pump. I have to start the well house first, then add the rest, but it works fine. Lost power for 12 or 14 days straight last January.

As far as the redundant bond, while it is technically a violation, in real world use with a flexible power cord, the only alternative path is inside the flexible cord, so there is not really any actual danger. However, I always unbond the genny for my customers.

 

[Frank DuVal]

A generator with a bonded neutral will cause GFCIS in the house to trip.

No, the GFCI on the generator output, yes, a lot of them have that, will trip. So you MUST go inside the generator and remove the bond.

 

[SceneryDriver]

A generator with a bonded neutral will cause GFCIS in the house to trip.

No, the GFCI on the generator output, yes, a lot of them have that, will trip. So you MUST go inside the generator and remove the bond.

Do the 30A 120/240V 4-wire receptacles on generators typically come with GFCI protection? Most all of the generators I've seen only have GFCI protection on their 20A 120V receptacle(s).

If present, then yes the generator GFCI will trip unless the N and G are unbonded at the generator.


SceneryDriver

 

[garbo]

Read awhile ago that some people are using soft starters on motors that run off small generators and being they limit the Locked rotor amps they can use a smaller generator.

 

[hillbilly1]

Do the 30A 120/240V 4-wire receptacles on generators typically come with GFCI protection? Most all of the generators I've seen only have GFCI protection on their 20A 120V receptacle(s).

If present, then yes the generator GFCI will trip unless the N and G are unbonded at the generator.


SceneryDriver

They do on Honda’s. I had to disable it on my uncles due to the remote location of the generator, and only three wires going back to the house. They use a ct and relay that can easily be disabled.

 

[electrofelon]

.

As far as the redundant bond, while it is technically a violation, in real world use with a flexible power cord, the only alternative path is inside the flexible cord, so there is not really any actual danger. However, I always unbond the genny for my customers.

I don't see the issue either. Has there ever been an issue with this? Plus seems to me that one could argue that an unbonded generator is a much greater risk when not connected to the premise wiring system so best just to leave it bonded. I will admit I do not check or unbond generators for this type of use

 

[kwired]

I don't see the issue either. Has there ever been an issue with this? Plus seems to me that one could argue that an unbonded generator is a much greater risk when not connected to the premise wiring system so best just to leave it bonded. I will admit I do not check or unbond generators for this type of use

I don't think it is much of a risk. Fault on any conductor simply turns it into a grounded system, second fault is going to trip overcurrent device.

GFCI should never trip if supply side EGC doesn't connect to the neutral conductor, there is no place for any current to travel that doesn't keep balance on the GFCI sensing components.

 

[electrofelon]

I don't think it is much of a risk. Fault on any conductor simply turns it into a grounded system, second fault is going to trip overcurrent device.

GFCI should never trip if supply side EGC doesn't connect to the neutral conductor, there is no place for any current to travel that doesn't keep balance on the GFCI sensing components.

Right I don't think it is "much" of a risk, but I think it is "more" of a risk than having an insulated EGC in an insulated overall sheath carrying some neutral current which has a risk of just infinitesimally over zero. Much greater times infinitesimally small is still really small

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

I don't see the issue either. Has there ever been an issue with this? Plus seems to me that one could argue that an unbonded generator is a much greater risk when not connected to the premise wiring system so best just to leave it bonded. I will admit I do not check or unbond generators for this type of use

That’s one of the catches. Once I unbond it for the customer to use as a home standby, they shouldn’t be using it as a stand alone generator.

 

[LarryFine]

How about adding a switch instead?

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

How about adding a switch instead?

I have one I need to install on one of my portables. Been sitting in the shop “needing to get done” for… well, a while.

Someone, here I think, also suggested building a male cord cap that just has a N-G bond and you just plug it into one of the receptacles when you want to use it as a stand alone.

 

[CoolWill]

A generator with a bonded neutral will cause GFCIS in the house to trip.

I'm surprised he didn't lock the thread after so many people corrected him on this.

 

[kwired]

That’s one of the catches. Once I unbond it for the customer to use as a home standby, they shouldn’t be using it as a stand alone generator.

I have a portable that doesn't have a N-G bond. I think there are many that are that way. They obviously were intended to be stand alone generators particularly if they have 5-15 receptacle(s) on them. Mine has a 14-30L and two 5-15 GFCI's.

 

[hillbilly1]

I have a portable that doesn't have a N-G bond. I think there are many that are that way. They obviously were intended to be stand alone generators particularly if they have 5-15 receptacle(s) on them. Mine has a 14-30L and two 5-15 GFCI's.

I have a real old one (about 40 years old) that’s not bonded. It has a duplex, and a 6-15r. The owners manual called for a 5-15p with a jumper between the neutral and ground to be plugged into the duplex to use the 6-15r as a 120/240 volt plug.

 

[kwired]

I have a real old one (about 40 years old) that’s not bonded. It has a duplex, and a 6-15r. The owners manual called for a 5-15p with a jumper between the neutral and ground to be plugged into the duplex to use the 6-15r as a 120/240 volt plug.

40 years old is 1984

That can't be old, can it?

 

[ptonsparky]

40 years old is 1984

That can't be old, can it?

Not at all!

 

[Bill_F]

I believe mention here before, easiest, cheapest is pre-made plug.
Such as:

NEUTRAL GROUND BONDING PLUG | Southwire

Ensure safe and efficient electrical grounding for your generator with Southwire's 44400 neutral ground bonding plug. Order yours now!

www.southwire.com

 

[hillbilly1]

40 years old is 1984

That can't be old, can it?

Yep, it no longer runs, and I made a wire cart out of the frame this year. The rest of it is in the soon to go to scrap yard pile. Bought it brand new from Lowes.

 

[hillbilly1]

Here’s the business end of it.