ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
Just like it does in Kwires example.
Sure it works, but should you?
Generator for a well pump
- Thread starter TheWantonElectrician
- Start date
- Status
Sure it works, but should you?
Seven-Delta-FortyOne
Goin’ Down In Flames........
- Location
- Humboldt
- Occupation
- EC and GC
I run the backup “ag” well off a 3500 watt cheapo champion. I think it’s a 1.5 hp. Been a while since I installed it.
The main house at the ranch uses a 7500 watt inverter portable (because I still haven’t connected the 26kW Generac yet,
but that’s another story) and it runs the house plus the main well pump plus the pressure pump. I have to start the well house first, then add the rest, but it works fine. Lost power for 12 or 14 days straight last January.
As far as the redundant bond, while it is technically a violation, in real world use with a flexible power cord, the only alternative path is inside the flexible cord, so there is not really any actual danger. However, I always unbond the genny for my customers.
The main house at the ranch uses a 7500 watt inverter portable (because I still haven’t connected the 26kW Generac yet,
but that’s another story) and it runs the house plus the main well pump plus the pressure pump. I have to start the well house first, then add the rest, but it works fine. Lost power for 12 or 14 days straight last January.As far as the redundant bond, while it is technically a violation, in real world use with a flexible power cord, the only alternative path is inside the flexible cord, so there is not really any actual danger. However, I always unbond the genny for my customers.
Frank DuVal
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Engineer
A generator with a bonded neutral will cause GFCIS in the house to trip.
No, the GFCI on the generator output, yes, a lot of them have that, will trip. So you MUST go inside the generator and remove the bond.
No, the GFCI on the generator output, yes, a lot of them have that, will trip. So you MUST go inside the generator and remove the bond.
SceneryDriver
Senior Member
- Location
- NJ
- Occupation
- Electrical and Automation Designer
Do the 30A 120/240V 4-wire receptacles on generators typically come with GFCI protection? Most all of the generators I've seen only have GFCI protection on their 20A 120V receptacle(s).
If present, then yes the generator GFCI will trip unless the N and G are unbonded at the generator.
SceneryDriver
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
They do on Honda’s. I had to disable it on my uncles due to the remote location of the generator, and only three wires going back to the house. They use a ct and relay that can easily be disabled.
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
- Occupation
- Electrician
I don't see the issue either. Has there ever been an issue with this? Plus seems to me that one could argue that an unbonded generator is a much greater risk when not connected to the premise wiring system so best just to leave it bonded. I will admit I do not check or unbond generators for this type of use
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
I don't think it is much of a risk. Fault on any conductor simply turns it into a grounded system, second fault is going to trip overcurrent device.
GFCI should never trip if supply side EGC doesn't connect to the neutral conductor, there is no place for any current to travel that doesn't keep balance on the GFCI sensing components.
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
- Occupation
- Electrician
Right I don't think it is "much" of a risk, but I think it is "more" of a risk than having an insulated EGC in an insulated overall sheath carrying some neutral current which has a risk of just infinitesimally over zero. Much greater times infinitesimally small is still really small
Seven-Delta-FortyOne
Goin’ Down In Flames........
- Location
- Humboldt
- Occupation
- EC and GC
That’s one of the catches. Once I unbond it for the customer to use as a home standby, they shouldn’t be using it as a stand alone generator.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
How about adding a switch instead?
Seven-Delta-FortyOne
Goin’ Down In Flames........
- Location
- Humboldt
- Occupation
- EC and GC
I have one I need to install on one of my portables. Been sitting in the shop “needing to get done” for… well, a while.
Someone, here I think, also suggested building a male cord cap that just has a N-G bond and you just plug it into one of the receptacles when you want to use it as a stand alone.
I'm surprised he didn't lock the thread after so many people corrected him on this.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
I have a portable that doesn't have a N-G bond. I think there are many that are that way. They obviously were intended to be stand alone generators particularly if they have 5-15 receptacle(s) on them. Mine has a 14-30L and two 5-15 GFCI's.
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
I have a real old one (about 40 years old) that’s not bonded. It has a duplex, and a 6-15r. The owners manual called for a 5-15p with a jumper between the neutral and ground to be plugged into the duplex to use the 6-15r as a 120/240 volt plug.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
Not at all!40 years old is 1984
That can't be old, can it?
I believe mention here before, easiest, cheapest is pre-made plug.
Such as:
www.southwire.com
Such as:
NEUTRAL GROUND BONDING PLUG | Southwire
Ensure safe and efficient electrical grounding for your generator with Southwire's 44400 neutral ground bonding plug. Order yours now!
www.southwire.com
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
Yep, it no longer runs, and I made a wire cart out of the frame this year. The rest of it is in the soon to go to scrap yard pile. Bought it brand new from Lowes.40 years old is 1984
That can't be old, can it?
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
- Status