Generator Install additional 200A disconnect

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pkelectrical

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This is the installation that I will need to do on this new construction home.
Service is coming overhead from the pole on left side with a 200A disconnect, to a sub-panel on the other side of the house in the basement.
Homeowner wants to put a generator, but we can't put it where the meter/service disconnect is as there is a driveway, we can only put it on the other side of the house where the sub-panel is.
Do I need to install another 200A automatic transfer switch that will be feed from the 200A service disconnect by the generator? I definitely want ATS with load shedding.
Homeowner is not sure if he wants Generac, Kohler or Briggs & Stratton.
Please let me know if this installation makes sense or there is better way to do this.
 
Your diagram looks fine and correct but I'm not sure I follow your description. You don't need any OCPD at or in the ATS as you have the 200 amp service disconnect next to the meter for the utility side and the genset will have a breaker for the gen side. You could even put the ATS over next to the service and keep everything in one place. You could put the genset where ever suits best and just run it to the ATS.
 
texie said:
Your diagram looks fine and correct but I'm not sure I follow your description. You don't need any OCPD at or in the ATS as you have the 200 amp service disconnect next to the meter for the utility side and the genset will have a breaker for the gen side. You could even put the ATS over next to the service and keep everything in one place. You could put the genset where ever suits best and just run it to the ATS.
Click to expand...
I was following the topic where an inspector required Service disconnect for generator where the conductors from generator entered a house.
http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=152425&highlight=briggs

If I put the ATS by the meter I would need to run the conductors from the generator around the house, couldn't enter them inside the house. As someone mentioned in the previous topic, the breaker inside generator is not rated as service disconnect. For me to put the ATS by the meter/200A service disconnect, I would need another service disconnect for the generator conductors at the generator?

"702.12 Outdoor Generator Sets. Where an outdoor housed
generator set is equipped with a readily accessible disconnecting
means located within sight of the building or structure
supplied,............

If the generator you're using has a readily accessible disconnect (that means not inside a lockable cover) (i.e Generac's is inside the gray panel on the right side of the unit. If you lock that gray cover then it's not readily accessible. BTW, it comes with a slide-in decvice that gives you the means to lock it. IMHO, just throw that away and don't tell your customer about it.) then

.......an additional disconnecting means shall not be required
where ungrounded conductors serve or pass through
the building or structure. The disconnecting means shall meet
the requirements of 225.36."


702.12 does not require me to have an OCPD in the ATS by the generator, you are correct on this, so I would only need ATS without OCPD at the generator location. But if I was to put the ATS by the meter and service disconnect, I would need another OCPD (rated as service disconnect) by the generator from what I've read in other topic.
 
pkelectrical said:
I was following the topic where an inspector required Service disconnect for generator where the conductors from generator entered a house.
http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=152425&highlight=briggs

If I put the ATS by the meter I would need to run the conductors from the generator around the house, couldn't enter them inside the house. As someone mentioned in the previous topic, the breaker inside generator is not rated as service disconnect. For me to put the ATS by the meter/200A service disconnect, I would need another service disconnect for the generator conductors at the generator?

"702.12 Outdoor Generator Sets. Where an outdoor housed
generator set is equipped with a readily accessible disconnecting
means located within sight of the building or structure
supplied,............

If the generator you're using has a readily accessible disconnect (that means not inside a lockable cover) (i.e Generac's is inside the gray panel on the right side of the unit. If you lock that gray cover then it's not readily accessible. BTW, it comes with a slide-in decvice that gives you the means to lock it. IMHO, just throw that away and don't tell your customer about it.) then

.......an additional disconnecting means shall not be required
where ungrounded conductors serve or pass through
the building or structure. The disconnecting means shall meet
the requirements of 225.36."


702.12 does not require me to have an OCPD in the ATS by the generator, you are correct on this, so I would only need ATS without OCPD at the generator location. But if I was to put the ATS by the meter and service disconnect, I would need another OCPD (rated as service disconnect) by the generator from what I've read in other topic.
Click to expand...
ATS 2.jpg
This what I meant as another Disconnect by generator if I was to put ATS by the meter
 
pkelectrical said:
I was following the topic where an inspector required Service disconnect for generator where the conductors from generator entered a house.
http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=152425&highlight=briggs

If I put the ATS by the meter I would need to run the conductors from the generator around the house, couldn't enter them inside the house. As someone mentioned in the previous topic, the breaker inside generator is not rated as service disconnect. For me to put the ATS by the meter/200A service disconnect, I would need another service disconnect for the generator conductors at the generator?

"702.12 Outdoor Generator Sets. Where an outdoor housed
generator set is equipped with a readily accessible disconnecting
means located within sight of the building or structure
supplied,............

If the generator you're using has a readily accessible disconnect (that means not inside a lockable cover) (i.e Generac's is inside the gray panel on the right side of the unit. If you lock that gray cover then it's not readily accessible. BTW, it comes with a slide-in decvice that gives you the means to lock it. IMHO, just throw that away and don't tell your customer about it.) then

.......an additional disconnecting means shall not be required
where ungrounded conductors serve or pass through
the building or structure. The disconnecting means shall meet
the requirements of 225.36."


702.12 does not require me to have an OCPD in the ATS by the generator, you are correct on this, so I would only need ATS without OCPD at the generator location. But if I was to put the ATS by the meter and service disconnect, I would need another OCPD (rated as service disconnect) by the generator from what I've read in other topic.
Click to expand...
If you put ATS at the generator location you have to run the "normal" supply lines all the way to that location, plus the common "load" lines back to whatever it is supplying. Said transfer switch would not need to be suitable for use as service equipment - but you still would need a disconnecting means suitable for use as service equipment when you hit the house per 225.36, so best option is likely still a service rated ATS at the house.
 
pkelectrical said:

If the generator you're using has a readily accessible disconnect (that means not inside a lockable cover) (i.e Generac's is inside the gray panel on the right side of the unit. If you lock that gray cover then it's not readily accessible. BTW, it comes with a slide-in decvice that gives you the means to lock it. IMHO, just throw that away and don't tell your customer about it.) then
Click to expand...
Yet equipment behind a locked panel door or even in an electrical room with a locked door is still considered meeting the readily accessible requirements. Even if you put a single breaker enclosure there as a disconnecting means, many N3R versions have a padlock hasp as part of the door latching means.

I don't think your unit disconnect is considered "not readily accessible". I was thinking this was mentioned in art 100 definition but not finding it there:huh:
 
electricguy61 said:
(Kohler is a far superior generator to Generac in my experience. Generac is on the low end of equipment
Click to expand...

I am amazed how people trash Generac equipment..... Every building we have done for Motorola over the last 5 years or more has been Generac Generator and ATS. Do you really think they would keep putting inferior equipment in their buildings?
 
Maybe I'm not understanding this thread but..........
I don't see a need for a service rated transfer switch. All the service rated transfer switches I have used/seen have a disconnect for the utility feed but NOT the generator feed. Since the OP is supplying the transfer switch from a service disconnect adding a second disconnect is not required. If the concern is a disconnect for the generator feed then a simple breaker enclosure for (1) 2-pole breaker or disconnect switch will work.
 
qcroanoke said:
I am amazed how people trash Generac equipment..... Every building we have done for Motorola over the last 5 years or more has been Generac Generator and ATS. Do you really think they would keep putting inferior equipment in their buildings?
Click to expand...
I don't think there is anything wrong with Generac. They are no better or worse than others. We just put some in for att and tmobile this summer. They would both spend the money on somebody else if they wanted.

I do think that dealing with a Generac service is the pits. They always want to pass you on to their local tech and some of those guys aren't very good.
 
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