Getting tired of running accross Joe the Jackleg

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aftershock

aftershock

Senior Member
Location
Memphis, TN
I have been doing electrical work for close to seven years now.Im not "book smart" when it comes to the NEC. Alot of the things I learn about is from experiance. I dont do new construction unless it is an addition. I am mainly old work and remodles. I do alot of jobs as well, where a home inspection has been done and I am there to correct what the inspector has found.
First off, these home inspectors dont check everything and I find some of the things they put down , are things they have no clue about. Example,, writing up a 20 amp circuit feeding a "no fuse" diconnect for a central air conditioner with a minimum circuit amps of 18. something and a max fuse of say 30.
Also, going to jobs where I find more problems than the inspector. Since I dont hesitate to crawl under a house, I tell ya,, I find more violations. Multiple open splices in wire. Wire nailed to the bottom of the floor joist (not near a "rat rail". Wire running directly on the ground.
I tell you, damnit, if you going to pick a job to do,, do it right and to its fullest.

Sorry to rant,, had a bad day.
 
Wanna hear what I found today?

I got called to a condo that is due to be sold. Seller wants me to fix the items the buyer's inspector flagged. One item was exposed NM under the kitchen sink, likely left over from a previously-installed garbage disposal. I guessed that the wire came from behind the adjacent dishwasher, so I opened up the toe kick and looked. There was a pancake box screwed to a furring strip on the floor about 18" from the toe kick, with five NM cables entering it through the KOs on the back side. No clamps, all the splices just hanging in the air, all the ground wires unconnected to anything. The dishwasher was propped up with pieces of wood, so it would have been problematic to pull it out. So I had to remove the disposal wiring and reconnect everything through the toe kick. Not fun.

I wonder why we even have licensing/inspection laws. I run into this kind of thing all the time. In fact, about the only time I don't find illegal wiring is when the wiring hasn't been touched since the house was built.
 
When it starts getting to me I try to remember that I make a living fixing all the hack work. I used to think the DIYers stole our work, now I think they may make more.

I know how you feel.

The losers are the homeowners who buy a house with "Electrical Upgrades" when in reality it all should be ripped out. I advise potential homebuyers if they really want to know the state of the homes' electrical system to hire an electrcian to do the inspection.
 
jeff43222 said:
I wonder why we even have licensing/inspection laws. I run into this kind of thing all the time. In fact, about the only time I don't find illegal wiring is when the wiring hasn't been touched since the house was built.
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I couldn't agree more.
 
Home owners

Home owners

In my opinion, home owners should not be able to do their own electrical work, even though it saves money,
example,
joe homeowner wants receptacles for his big screen tv, he tags off of a microwave circuit, and adds a get this, 4 gang old work box, and has 4 duplex receptacles, all plugged into "entertainment" products, with one 6 plug power strip off one duplex. This happend here in West Virginia, we were called out on a microwave dimming problem, the white wires in the 4 gang were black from overheating, ive never ever seen brand new romex be so brittle and fall away with a touch

case in point, the homeowner added this circuit and could have burned his house down, just to save about 300 dollars in electricians fees, and then had to have us come out and add circuits for his tv stuff, all costing with material about $550.

Sucks to be him
 
When I started going through my house (bought new back in 89') I stopped counting code violations when I hit 50. Most were minor, but 3 could have been fatal.
 
Yesterdays home inspection corrections

Refrigerator is supplied by GFI receptacle. This is improper. Circuit needs to be dedicated.

For the LV undercabinet lights I was supposed to put the wires in the wall. These were the plug-in big box type wired with zip cord.
 
jes25 said:
When it starts getting to me I try to remember that I make a living fixing all the hack work. I used to think the DIYers stole our work, now I think they may make more.
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Assuming the hack work gets fixed. I find hack work all the time, but people are often not interested in getting it fixed as long as it works and isn't an obvious, immediate safety problem. It's sometimes hard to convince people to correct the problems because I have an obvious interest in having them hire me to do the work, so any advice I give in this regard is going to be understandably seen as biased.

jes25 said:
The losers are the homeowners who buy a house with "Electrical Upgrades" when in reality it all should be ripped out. I advise potential homebuyers if they really want to know the state of the homes' electrical system to hire an electrcian to do the inspection.
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Very true. If I had a nickel for every time I had a homeowner ask me why the HI didn't find electrical problems I did, I'd have over two dollars!
 
Re: Home owners

Re: Home owners

WV Sparktition said:
In my opinion, home owners should not be able to do their own electrical work, even though it saves money,
example,
joe homeowner wants receptacles for his big screen tv, he tags off of a microwave circuit, and adds a get this, 4 gang old work box, and has 4 duplex receptacles, all plugged into "entertainment" products, with one 6 plug power strip off one duplex. This happend here in West Virginia, we were called out on a microwave dimming problem, the white wires in the 4 gang were black from overheating, ive never ever seen brand new romex be so brittle and fall away with a touch

case in point, the homeowner added this circuit and could have burned his house down, just to save about 300 dollars in electricians fees, and then had to have us come out and add circuits for his tv stuff, all costing with material about $550.

Sucks to be him
Click to expand...

Actually, some homeowners do a good job, but it's definitely a rarity. I don't have a problem with homeowners doing their own work as long as they follow the same rules/procedures that we have to. When you factor in all the time and effort they would have to spend to learn how to do it right, most of them would probably conclude that it would be cheaper to just hire a pro.

The problem isn't so much that homeowners are allowed to do their own electrical work. It's that so many of them do it without pulling permits and getting the work inspected. This could be dealt with fairly easily if the housing authorities kept records and consulted them every time a property is put on the market. If the records indicate a room had two receptacles, but the current inspection shows four, if there's no permit on file for the work, they would then order the seller to hire a pro to make things right. It would seriously cut down on the hack work that never gets fixed despite a property changing hands many times.
 
Hacks will always exist, and hack work will always exist. I used to be bothered by it, but there is nothing I can do about it so I just have to look past it and move on.
 
jeff43222 said:
I wonder why we even have licensing/inspection laws.
Click to expand...

Licensing is no gurarantee of good work. Yes, I believe it greatly increases the standard of work but it will never eliminate the bad stuff. My area is very strict with licensing and apprenticeship. Yet there are still plenty of electricians who hold a license that do terrible work.
 
I went on this service call for AC kicking out the breaker. HO tried to get EC back out but couldn't get in touch with him.

When I discovered problem/s and informed HO of cost to correct, HO was outraged told me she didn't have to pay that much to get work done in the 1st place.

I told her that I was sorry and maybe she should call someone else and I recommended she call the city el inspector.

I got the job. Previous contractor had installed new service. Went up to a 100 amp service. ran EMT from panel to room for AC. #6 from service head to above new pane where it was spliced in mid air along with several of the home runs. EMT bent around chimney with shoe method; very effective way to put 4 serious kinks in it.

Lady swears the guy was a licensed contractor. 8)
 
Did an estimate the other day at a customer' parents house. (Parents passed away).
We walked through and he said Dad used to do all his own work. I told him yes I can see that. You know we don't do it that way.
He said I know. Fix it please!!
 
If you want to see something scary, just observe the lost souls roaming around the electrical isles at your local Home Depot etc. Then listen in to some of the advice the just hired expert is giving to the lost soul regarding the wiring project about to be attempted. That scenario is a major contributor to these hack jobs we see every day.
 
Worked yesterday in the garage area of a municipal vehicle maintenance bldg. Found a 3 phase 4 wire 120/208 sub panel with all the EGC's connected to the neutral bar. (I guess they thought it was a service). 14-30R dryer receptacles use for 3 phase 208 circuits and so on. Just shook my head and wondered.
 
jes25 said:
I advise potential homebuyers if they really want to know the state of the homes' electrical system to hire an electrician to do the inspection.
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Good advice. I did that before I bought my present house. I was able to include in my offer that the seller and buyer would essentially split the cost of fixing the problems. That saved me ten times the amount of money I paid to an electrician for doing an inspection for me.
 
If you want to see something scary, just observe the lost souls roaming around the electrical isles at your local Home Depot etc. Then listen in to some of the advice the just hired expert is giving to the lost soul regarding the wiring project about to be attempted. That scenario is a major contributor to these hack jobs we see every day.
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I have to put blinders on and stick my fingers in my ears and go la-la-la... while i'm walking down the electrical aisles of these places.

As a point of philosophy, the real point is not how an electrical system works that is most important, it is how it fails that is most important.

Most of the conversations i overhear in these aisles have to do with how to get something to 'work.' The concepts of how to mitigate failures in the system are just not there.

In Texas, it is legal for a homeowner perform electrical work in his own home. Here is an excerpt from Texas Title 8 occupations code chapter 1305 (Texas State Electrical law and its application)

Sec. 1305.003. Exemptions; Application of Chapter.
(a) This chapter does not apply to:

(6) work not specifically regulated by a municipal ordinance that is performed in or on a dwelling by a person who owns and resides in the dwelling;
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I'd like to see this exemption deleted. I think all work should be done be a licensed Electrician. If a homeowner has to live with the results of his own work, so be it. The trouble comes when the house is sold and the new family moves in. I don't like the thought of a child getting electrocuted because of something the previous homeowner did. :shock: :(

Eric Stromberg, P.E. :)
 
eric stromberg said:
I don't like the thought of a child getting electrocuted because of something the previous homeowner did.
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I agree. But I will add that the "second saddest" part of such a tragedy is that the person who did the wiring error would never learn that the tragedy had taken place. :cry:
 
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