Getting tired of running accross Joe the Jackleg

[jeff43222]

Owner/homesteaders of single-family detach dwellings can do their own electrical work up here, too. They're also supposed to pull a permit and get the work inspected, but that rarely happens.

Like others have said, there's always going to be hack work, and I doubt the legislature is going to take away the right of homeowners to do their own electrical work. But there should at least be a mechanism to catch the hack work and correct it at some point. We have to have a city-licensed truth-in-housing inspector go through the house and file a report with the city any time a house is put up for sale. Seems to me they could include in the report how many receptacles, lights, etc. they find and compare the old report to the new report and see if the new work was done under a permit. At least the hack work would then stand a chance of being corrected before the new owner buys the place.

 

[pete m.]

It is my opinion that homeowners will never be prohibited from performing work on their own property. I am very careful of the advice that I will give a homeowner seeking to perform their own installation, whatever it may be. One statement that I regularly make is;

"You will need to obtain a copy of the current edition of the National Electrical Code. Here you will find the minimum requirements for the installation that you are wanting to perform. These regulations are in effect to insure your safety and the safety of those that may own the property after you."

And, of course, a permit and inspections are required. Usually, if the homeowner takes the time to look at the NEC they quickly surmise that they are not the "qualified person" contemplated by the NEC in chapter 100. But, this sometimes also backfires and they read and incorrectly apply what they thought they read..... then I have the task of explaining why they have to re-work what they have already installed.

As far as hacks are concerned........ :evil: :evil:

 

[celtic]

I wonder why we even have licensing/inspection laws. I run into this kind of thing all the time. In fact, about the only time I don't find illegal wiring is when the wiring hasn't been touched since the house was built.

I couldn't agree more.

I bought my house from the original owner...granted, the home was vacant for about 10-15 years....but there were virtually NO cases of "spontaneous construction" or other such work.

Ok, it's not THAT decrepit...but it does need a boatload of work....but it's NEW work, not repairing someone's idea of a "good plan".

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I wonder why we even have licensing/inspection laws. I run into this kind of thing all the time. In fact, about the only time I don't find illegal wiring is when the wiring hasn't been touched since the house was built.

I couldn't agree more.

I bought my house from the original owner...granted, the home was vacant for about 10-15 years....but there were virtually NO cases of "spontaneous construction" or other such work.

Ok, it's not THAT decrepit...but it does need a boatload of work....but it's NEW work, not repairing someone's idea of a "good plan".

We trust that you will pull a permit :wink:

 

[eric stromberg]

My brother and his wife live in Canada. I have been told that, in Canada, it is illegal for an unlicensed person to do electrical work in his own home. That all work must be done by a licensed electrician. Is there someone out in Forum-Land that can confirm this?

Eric

 

[celtic]

We trust that you will pull a permit :wink:

I pulled a permit for my service in '03..it's still not done..LMAO.

 

[ceknight]

I have been told that, in Canada, it is illegal for an unlicensed person to do electrical work in his own home. That all work must be done by a licensed electrician. Is there someone out in Forum-Land that can confirm this?

I can't confirm it for all of Canada, but it's true in Ottawa. Friends of mine bought a little fixer-upper there and had me up for a consult and some fishing. They were required to hire licenses to do all the electrical and plumbing work. I basically told them what I thought needed to be done and how best to do it so they'd know they were getting good estimates, then they put everything out to bid. Even the broken receptacles.

--

On the bigger issue of whether homeowners ought or ought not be able to work on their own houses, well, it's hard to have an opinion on this topic without getting a bit political. This really comes down to how much power you want your government to have over you and what you do with your private property.

Me? I'm firmly in the "ought to be able to" category. I have no trouble with homeowners working on their own residences, though like everyone else here it'd be nice if they did it properly. Then again, I make a pretty good living cleaning up after them when they don't...

Alongside that opinion, though, I believe that when homeowners work on their own residences, they should assume all risks associated with it. That means if Joe Jackleg makes a bad splice and burns his house down with his family sleeping in it, homeowner's insurance doesn't pay and he's prosecuted for manslaughter. Etc.

I also think home buyers should be responsible for finding out exactly what it is they're buying before they buy it, within reason anyway. I don't feel it's the government's job to make sure the previous owner didn't Jackleg that attic j-box, rather I think it's the buyer's job.

These are, of course, my opinions. Take them for whatever they're worth.

Chris Knight
Syracuse NY

 

[Minuteman]

A fridge can be plugged into a SA branch and GFCI protected.

Yep, it can be on the SA, but I would not put it on a GFCI. Unless they like spoiled food.

 

[aftershock]

My main concern with homeowners (in my cases it has been a friend of a friend that did the work) doing electrical work is safety. I myself dont see a problem with replacing a switch, receptacle, or light (as long as it is copper wire and not aluminum.
I see alot of instances where a circuit is run for a dryer or something and it comes from an outside panel in romex (no protection like conduit). I also see double tapped breakers, overloaded panels, splicing of copper to aluminum, THHN ran as if it were romex, romex run on the outside of a house, lamp cord ran on the outside of a house, I could go on and on.
I had a trouble call yesterday. Fire dept was called to a house cause of smoke coming from the panel, city electric dept came out and booted the meter. I could smell the burnt odor but could not see a visual problem. until I removed a couple of breakers. Heat damage caused 4 breakers to melt at the contact point on the buss bar in this split buss panel due to the lighing section being overloaded.
I saw multiple violations which I know were done by a non licensed electrictian.
Needless to say, $650.00 later, the homeowner had a new 200 amp panel, new panel feed, and every circuit had its own OCPD.

 

[jes25]

I myself dont see a problem with replacing a switch, receptacle, or light (as long as it is copper wire and not aluminum)

Replacing a device or light fixture is over most jack legs heads.

I repaired a dimmer a while back a homeowner tried to put in himself.
Installing a dimmer is a easy DIY project, right............ WRONG

This dimmer had pigtails on it from the factory. The house was old and no EGC was present. He started randomly hooking wires to the pigtails in a attempt to get it working. He gave up with the hot hooked to the green. :shock: It was in the bath. How someone didn't get killed I still don't know. It was like this for weeks before he called.

Other problems I see with HO devices include; improper polarity, loose connections, 1 inch long wires, grounding receptacles on two wire circuits. making connections with tape only, etc.

DIYers were screwing up so many GFCI's they had to come out with the smart locks to idiot proof them, and now I have to spend a buck or two more each!

 

[ceknight]

....He started randomly hooking wires to the pigtails in a attempt to get it working. He gave up with the hot hooked to the green. :shock: It was in the bath. How someone didn't get killed I still don't know.

This showed up in the comics this week, seems a propos to this thread:

http://www.ucomics.com/nonsequitur/2006/04/13/

 

[jeff43222]

We trust that you will pull a permit :wink:

I pulled a permit for my service in '03..it's still not done..LMAO.

I though I was the only one who did that. The city cancelled my permit after it had been open for about 18 months. I haven't worked on my house's wiring since.

 

[celtic]

I though I was the only one who did that. The city cancelled my permit after it had been open for about 18 months. I haven't worked on my house's wiring since.

The city cancelled that service permit, and now I also have to re-submit my dormer plans for approval (that was issued in '04)...I think I have another permit laying around collecting dust.

My mind thinks there are still 40 hours in a day...my body knows there might only be 8.

 

[Ken9876]

While walking around in the HD I wounder how many homeowners are grabbing the low voltage boxes to install switches/ outlets, I mean it's got a damn big hole in the back I can jam all those wires in, very easy. And If the smart folks at the big box store put it with everything else that must mean I can use it.

 

[benaround]

Aftershock,

If that unit called for 'max fuse size' than a fusable disconect would be

required.

manf. instuctions.

 

[romeo]

I was once reported to the Board Of Selectmen by a home owner for having passed a final on a new home with a NEC violation.

A Home Inspector saw a water system ground and took it as the service grounding electrode conductor. He told the home owner that it could not serve as the service ground because there was plastic pipe going out to the well.

The service ground was going out to the well casing that was required at that time, but he never looked at that.

I found out who he was and asked him for something in wrighting but he said he could not do that.

 

[charlie b]

This showed up in the comics this week, seems a propos to this thread:

http://www.ucomics.com/nonsequitur/2006/04/13/

LOL! :lol:

I saw that when it came out in the local newspaper. I had thought about posting a link to it. But you got there first, and saved me the trouble of looking it up. Thanks.

 

[jcook]

Just curious about all of you who hate DYI people, do you hire out your plumbing repairs? How about that hole in the wall that needs a little patch? Change your own oil in the truck? I know I am going to get bashed by those who say there is a big differance between what I have asked and electrical work, but I know several people who are not electricians by trade that are more than capable of installing a new recptacle in their living room on a dedicated circuit for their new TV. I also know several who are not. I do not disagree with those who seek advice at the big box stores are relying on an"expert" because they are in the aisle marked electric for that shift. How many of you have gotten advice sitting on the stool of a local supply house? How many times have you heard what I call "supply house code referances" that are not even close to what is in the NEC. In our area a homeowner must get a permit and an inspection. I also know the local AHJ tries to discourage that work but is obligated to inspect whether it is Mr. Homeowner or Mr. Contractor.
I am not saying DYI should be allowed to do work or not but it is what made this country what it is. Remeber learning how to fix the car with Dad on Saturday? I bet the local garage owner did not like me and Dad doing "his work" either. But it is and will be a fact that people will try to do anything they think they can just for the experiance and satisfaction of being able to say "I did that".
How many of you have built that deck on the back of your house? Or that addition to your house when the local carpenter plumber and HVAC guy just drove past and waved?

Come on guys it is just electric work not brain surgery!!!!

OK let the bashing begin.

 

[jes25]

How many of you have gotten advice sitting on the stool of a local supply house?.

The only advice I get from the guys in the supply house is in regards to a part or product that I am not familiar with, and that is sketchy. Just yesterday I was ordering some of the SeaGull Ambiance low-volt lighting stuff and the supply house guy said "we don't carry the SeaGull transformers, just use this brand" I declined, and showed him in the catalog where it said: WARNING; THE USE OF OTHER MANUFACTURERS PRODUCTS WILL VOID THE UL LISTING AND WARRANTY AND MAY CAUSE A FIRE.

He says "Oh don't belive everything you read".

The part that got me fired up was when he made a comment about my age and said I didn't know what I was talking about.

Come on guys it is just electric work not brain surgery!!!!

Yeah, your right how about you get paid 7$ an hour to do simpleton electric work. I will continue to try to have a full understanding of the code, theory and the practical application of such. So that I can install systems in a timely, cost effective manner while preserving life safety.


Or maybe I could just ask the guys at the home depot and learn all that in 5 minutes. With your attitude maybe you could be one of those guys.

 

[George Stolz]

Jcook, I would be as dismayed about hearing about a car accident caused by a poor brake installation, as I would about someone receiving a shock due to improper wiring.

We can vent every now and then, it helps to know others are seeing the same things you're seeing; misery loves company.

Everyone has their own opinions regarding DIY'ers, from extremely pro to extemely con.