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GFCI breaker for hot tub tripping

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oscarcolumbo

Member
Location
Florida
We just wired for a 60 amp hot tub in a lanai. We also replaced the panel with a SQ D QO. Put the GFCI breaker in the panel and a pull out disconnect at the tub. The GFCI breaker trips instantly. Disconnected the tub and it holds, connect it back and it trips. I told the home owner to call the company she bought the tub from so they can troubleshoot. A tech from the company calls me onsite and says I have to remove the GFCI and put a regular 60 amp. He says he’s done it hundreds of times, but can’t do it here cause I installed the GFCI inside the panel and not at the disconnect. The reason I installed it in the panel is cause we are having a breaker shortage cause of COVID and the only 60 amp GFCI CED had was QO. The tech said everything is fine with the tub. My question is, I’m going back to remove the QO GFCI from the panel and put it at the disconnect so I can try a different brand. I know QO is really touchy when it comes to GFCI’s and think Siemens is better with tubs or pools. Is it Siemens or Eaton? I can’t remember.

P.S. I told the home owner to NOT listen to that tech and to not have him remove the GFCI when we’re done.


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texie

Senior Member
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Occupation
Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
My first question is what is the voltage for the hot tub? 120/240 or 240? If it is 120/240 do not you have a neutral going out to the tub disco? Does you GFCI breaker support line to neutral loads?
 
Buck Parrish

Buck Parrish

Senior Member
Location
NC & IN
Try this... Have all your wires hooked up at the tub as you normally would. Then remove the ground wire from the lug not letting it touch any thing. Then try the breaker. If it holds, take the ground wire and touch it to the lug. It should then trip. If so the problem is on their end. Not yours.... This worked for me just last week. I took video as I was doing it and showed the HO,
 
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oscarcolumbo

Member
Location
Florida
texie said:
My first question is what is the voltage for the hot tub? 120/240 or 240? If it is 120/240 do not you have a neutral going out to the tub disco? Does you GFCI breaker support line to neutral loads?
Click to expand...

It’s 240. That’s a good question. I haven’t been there to look at the final job, one of our electricians did the job and I’m going to go look at it tomorrow. I really hope he ran a neutral.


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LarryFine

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
QO 2p 60a GFCI breakers do not gave load neutral terminals. If the tub needs one, you'll need a different brand.

The easiest fix is the standard QO breaker in the panel and a GFCI breaker in place of the pull-out.
 
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texie

Senior Member
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Occupation
Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
LarryFine said:
QO 2p 60a GFCI breakers do not gave load neutral terminals. If the tub needs one, you'll need a different brand.

The easiest fix is the standard QO breaker in the panel and a GFCI breaker in place of the pull-out.
Click to expand...
As you probably surmise, I was trying to get the OP to think this through. If I had to guess it would be that he has a 120/240 tub that has no available neutral from his GFCI breaker and the tub neutral is likely connected to the EGC in the pullout disco or maybe there is a neutral but it connects to the mail panel neutral bar.
 
Jraef

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
How far is the panel where you put in the QO GFCI from the tub? Are you aware there is a distance limitation on GFCI breakers? On the QO GFCIs, Schneider tells you that the maximum CIRCUIT length is 250', but understand that for a 240V circuit, that is out and back, so the WIRE length is actually 125'.

I found that out the hard way at my own house. Put the GFCI breaker in the panel in my garage, the hot tub was at the other end of the house. Up the wall, into the ceiling, around the new addition, down the wall and out under the deck to the hot tub was about 175' (based on my having bought 200' of cable and having a 25' chunk left over). The GFCI tripped immediately. Put in a regular breaker and put a GFCI out at the local disconnect for the hot tub, worked fine.
 
brantmacga

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
LarryFine said:
QO 2p 60a GFCI breakers do not gave load neutral terminals. If the tub needs one, you'll need a different brand.

The easiest fix is the standard QO breaker in the panel and a GFCI breaker in place of the pull-out.
Click to expand...

Someone posted a picture of a QO260 with a load side neutral here recently after I told them it wasn’t possible.

It came as a packaged spa disconnect. That breaker is not shown in the digest though.

Here is the unit ….

www.homedepot.com

Square D QO 60 Amp 2-Space 4-Circuit Spa Panel Main Lug Load Center(QOE260GFINM) QOE260GFINM - The Home Depot

Provide complete power solutions to your home by using this Square D Homeline 2-Space 4-Circuit Spa Panel Main Lug Load Center. Cover can be padlocked.
www.homedepot.com

Edit…. here was the thread

Does anyone make a 60 amp GFCI breaker that'll fit in a Square D Homeline panel?

What is the purpose of the "load" terminal on the breaker if it's not sensing a difference in current? I guess I've never really thought about GFCI protection in a 240V situation. On a 120V system the GFCI is sensing a difference in current on the the hot and the neutral. But there is no...
forums.mikeholt.com

That breaker looks really long too. Not sure you’d have the clearance needed in a standard QO load center

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texie

Senior Member
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Occupation
Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
Yet another case of an OP that does not give us the courtesy of letting us know the outcome. Frustrating as outcomes cam be a learning experience.
 
brantmacga

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
texie said:
Yet another case of an OP that does not give us the courtesy of letting us know the outcome. Frustrating as outcomes cam be a learning experience.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure as you mentioned earlier they used the 60A 240 GFCI on a 120/240v load. Matter of fact, I’m putting $5 on it.


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kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Occupation
EC
brantmacga said:
Pretty sure as you mentioned earlier they used the 60A 240 GFCI on a 120/240v load. Matter of fact, I’m putting $5 on it.


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Click to expand...
Why not put cost of the breaker on it? :)

Was my first thought before reading past the OP as well.
 
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