GFCI Protected Switches?

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raider1 said:
Why would politely asking the inspector for a code reference have negative consequences?

I have never understood inspectors that get upset when asked for a code reference.

Chris
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I've never understood inspectors that invent their own code interpretations; but when they do and they're challenged on it I'm not too surprised if it upsets some of them.

It's sort of a catch 22 for me: The fact that I'm highly skeptical about it is what is deterring me from challenging it. My premonition is that I would be subjected to punitive inspections from this inspector -- whose inspections are already a well above average ordeal to begin with.
 
A few times I have made the change and then showed the inspector or his boss why I didn't need to, either with code references or code columns from EC or ECM magazines.

I don't know if this is a good idea or whether or not I'll do it again.

I like to argue but sometimes I make more money if I don't.
 
readydave8 said:
A few times I have made the change and then showed the inspector or his boss why I didn't need to, either with code references or code columns from EC or ECM magazines.

I don't know if this is a good idea or whether or not I'll do it again.

I like to argue but sometimes I make more money if I don't.
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I wish I had gained that wisdom earlier in life..... I might have some money :grin:
 
Argue with an inspector! I want to convince you of your mistake so you don't make it again and if am wrong I don't want to repeat my mistake.

90.4 is rewritten in my state requiring an official form and fees for any variation from what the code requires including reasons why the code can not apply in this situation. Cost is prohibited as a reason.
 
ike5547 said:
My premonition is that I would be subjected to punitive inspections from this inspector -- whose inspections are already a well above average ordeal to begin with.
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That's just one more reason to climb the food chain. Everyone has a supervisor for a reason.

If I ever thought an inspector was harsh because of a previous challenge, heads would roll.

Are we allowed to act like that because we didn't like an inspector's previous ruling?
 
Looking for a local code will not help matters - There is not local code for GFCI protection of lighting anywhere in the bathroom....

IMO - Be firm! But very aware... California code states that no switching may be within 5' of the shower or tub... That is a code.... It gets chucked in there every cycle by Cal-OSHA I beleive... Allowing the location by use of a GFCI - might work in your favor here...

I have had many inspector call for GFCI protected lighting - and they start rattling off that it is in the code - I immediately challenge them to find it - which they swear it exists 'somewhere'.... Then I say look - "If you want it GFCI protected - please 'request it' in writing on a correction notice so I can submit it with my change order." BUT - if you're gonna bust 'em on the inspector - you had better make sure roses spout from every opening on the job. And if in my neck of the woods that may mean somethings that may be more mind blowing as some of them are actually written down... Like each 2-wire circuit being in the pigment of the phase it is on (not re-identified...) - meaning you might have to go find some red/white 12/2 NM cable.... Just try that out.... ;) Choose your battles...
 
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Hmmm...it seems like this 5 foot rule applies strictly to 'bathtubs', but could it be that a bathroom that has a shower without a separate drip pan be classified as a shower room? And therefore no switches at all should've been installed there? Would the sink basin and toilet be technically within the shower room?

The job was finaled today so this is academic.

California Electrical Code

404.8(A)(2) [OSHPD 1, 2 & 4] Switches shall not be installed within shower rooms or stalls or be accessible from within these areas. Switches shall not be installed within 5 feet (1.52 m) of the perimeter of bathtubs.
 
e57 said:
Looking for a local code will not help matters - There is not local code for GFCI protection of lighting anywhere in the bathroom....

IMO - Be firm! But very aware... California code states that no switching may be within 5' of the shower or tub... That is a code.... It gets chucked in there every cycle by Cal-OSHA I beleive... Allowing the location by use of a GFCI - might work in your favor here...

I have had many inspector call for GFCI protected lighting - and they start rattling off that it is in the code - I immediately challenge them to find it - which they swear it exists 'somewhere'.... Then I say look - "If you want it GFCI protected - please 'request it' in writing on a correction notice so I can submit it with my change order." BUT - if you're gonna bust 'em on the inspector - you had better make sure roses spout from every opening on the job. And if in my neck of the woods that may mean somethings that may be more mind blowing as some of them are actually written down... Like each 2-wire circuit being in the pigment of the phase it is on (not re-identified...) - meaning you might have to go find some red/white 12/2 NM cable.... Just try that out.... ;) Choose your battles...
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Thanks for your input, BTW. I was hoping to get your opinion all along. It's why I bumped the thread a few times.
 
ike5547 said:
Hmmm...it seems like this 5 foot rule applies strictly to 'bathtubs', but could it be that a bathroom that has a shower without a separate drip pan be classified as a shower room? And therefore no switches at all should've been installed there? Would the sink basin and toilet be technically within the shower room?

The job was finaled today so this is academic.

California Electrical Code

404.8(A)(2) [OSHPD 1, 2 & 4] Switches shall not be installed within shower rooms or stalls or be accessible from within these areas. Switches shall not be installed within 5 feet (1.52 m) of the perimeter of bathtubs.

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Thanks for your input, BTW. I was hoping to get your opinion all along. It's why I bumped the thread a few times.
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"Accessible" for showers is a debatable item subject to the inspector and his/her reach and attitude - if they have had the correct amount of coffee.... To some - depending on mood - behind a shower door is fine, others dig for it and say the door might change someday... Some look at it as if you could lay horizontally in mid-air and touch the switch.... And yes - I have had to put all bath switching outside in the hall for some smaller baths because of this - makes customers really happy to have someone decide this for them. :roll: Then again others just roll their eyes and sign the card - then move on...

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Did you PM me on it before? I don't hit every thread - but if I see SF or CA in the title I'll usually drop in...

So which of the zany clan did you get? (initials?) Some are more reasonable than others? Since you got a correction notice on it - I can assume one of the 3 more zany of the dozen or so. And can also assume it was an enlightening experience?
 
e57 said:
Did you PM me on it before? I don't hit every thread - but if I see SF or CA in the title I'll usually drop in...

So which of the zany clan did you get? (initials?) Some are more reasonable than others? Since you got a correction notice on it - I can assume one of the 3 more zany of the dozen or so. And can also assume it was an enlightening experience?
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C. R***

Enlightening experience. Yep. I'll need to think about adding dollars to any project when CR's district comes up. Except - they all decided to play musical districts again right in the middle of this project. Rough inspection was with R.M.

Of course, this isn't the first time I've come up with the "adding dollars" concept. For some reason I never follow through with it.

PS) Yep, I PMd you on this.
 
e57 said:
And yes - I have had to put all bath switching outside in the hall for some smaller baths because of this - makes customers really happy to have someone decide this for them.
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I'm going to have to remember to include wording in proposals stating that the inspector may force us to move switching in bathrooms where it's impossible to stay five feet away or where the customer refuses to do so.
 
ike5547 said:
C. R***

Enlightening experience. Yep. I'll need to think about adding dollars to any project when CR's district comes up. Except - they all decided to play musical districts again right in the middle of this project. Rough inspection was with R.M.

Of course, this isn't the first time I've come up with the "adding dollars" concept. For some reason I never follow through with it.

PS) Yep, I PMd you on this.
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Rather than trash someone in public - I'll PM you.... :D I'm not sure if you know this or not - but the DBI is in the hole this year budget wise - and they retired/laid off a number of them and they have to hop around to keep up... There were a number of hi-rises with permits pulled that are not being built now - some idiot counted the chickens before they hatched - spent the mula on fancy computer scheduling programs my brother-in-law used to make ironically.... Some other elected idiot playing nice gave the developer millionaires the money back for those permits for the buildings that are not being built.... To the tune of MILLIONS of ducks in permit fees.... ;) However, some of those who stayed after the lay-offs - have 'protections' that keep them around when they should've been culled...
 
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