GFCI required in residential shop/garage/ outbuilding

[kwired]

There is here is no belly aching. There is no logical reason for a dedicated freezer or a plasma cutter to be protected. The code that everyone refers to in 210.8 (2)
'Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms'


'Grade level' most all new construction shops and out buildings are above grade so this does not apply. This is very silly from an electrical point of view. Anybody that has studied arc faults and GFCI or knows anything about electrical knows that it is measuring the current and that a discrepancy to ground causes it to trip thus in a workshop where someone might be running a small fabrication business from their home or something like that would have no reason or need to have GFI protected receptacles where there is no wet location or common fault currents to ground.

I have run into freezers and power tools with missing EGC pin on the cord, very good reason to require GFCI protection, especially in residential setting where one may be more likely to contact such an appliance/tool while barefoot.

Why you say most new shops and outbuildings are above grade? If it has a slab on grade for a floor it is "on grade". This seems to be most common type of outbuilding these days for such applications. If it would have a foundation that raises the floor so it is not directly on grade (even if floor is still concrete composition) you are no longer "on grade".

NEC doesn't specifically require GFCI in all non residential "shops", but does mention "Garages, service bays, and similar areas" which leaves many "shops" wide open for interpretation. If you can get a vehicle in there, many say it definitely needs GFCI protection, but "similar areas" can cover a lot of places IMO.

 

[retirede]

I had my attached garage expanded in 2011 to accommodate my shop tools.
Every receptacle is GFCI protected with the exception of the 240V outlet for my welder.

I’ve never had a single nuisance trip, ever. I lose no sleep about the fridge out there on a GFCI-protected circuit.

IMO, many folks are way too paranoid about what can go wrong with GFCIs. They do what they’re supposed to do with very few issues.

 

[kwired]

I had my attached garage expanded in 2011 to accommodate my shop tools.
Every receptacle is GFCI protected with the exception of the 240V outlet for my welder.

I’ve never had a single nuisance trip, ever. I lose no sleep about the fridge out there on a GFCI-protected circuit.

IMO, many folks are way too paranoid about what can go wrong with GFCIs. They do what they’re supposed to do with very few issues.

I've seen or heard of GFCI's tripping during thunderstorms - surge activity I would imagine.

I have a surge arrester at my service panel in my house, can't recall ever having any trips during a thunderstorm.

Only somewhat unexplained trip I have experienced at this house was when running on a portable generator one time and the generator ran out of fuel. I heard the generator sputtering and figured it was going down, at some point while coasting to a stop, nearly every GFCI in the house all tripped at same time, I heard a nearly synchronous pop from kitchen, bath, etc. Probably inductive kickback going on there when generator field collapsed.

 

[Frank DuVal]

I just checked 2017 210.8 (A) to (E) and see no mention of having to GFCI 240 volt receptacles in residential garages and accessory buildings. Just 15 and 20 amp 125 volt receptacles.

So, the table saw should be on 240, so no GFCI needed. OK, small contractor table saws are considered portable tools, so they are 120 volt and cord connected, so GFCI applies here.

I have one GFCI in the garage that trips on what I think is thunderstorm spikes. Never trips while I am in the garage. Only a stereo is plugged in to that circuit.

 

[hbiss]

Keep in mind that you can't use devices with surge protection after a GFCI such as outlet strips that have surge protection or, I would even imagine a UPS with surge protection (depending on where the MOVs are located).

They will result in an intermittent trip of the GFCI whenever there is a surge, spike or other condition that causes the MOVs to conduct to ground. The surge protection is just doing it's job but so is the GFCI. This can be a big problem.

Better to forgo the plug-in surge protection and install one at the panel.

-Hal

 

[kwired]

Keep in mind that you can't use devices with surge protection after a GFCI such as outlet strips that have surge protection or, I would even imagine a UPS with surge protection (depending on where the MOVs are located).

They will result in an intermittent trip of the GFCI whenever there is a surge, spike or other condition that causes the MOVs to conduct to ground. The surge protection is just doing it's job but so is the GFCI. This can be a big problem.

Better to forgo the plug-in surge protection and install one at the panel.

-Hal

The current shunted to ground still needs to be more than the trip threshold to trip the GFCI.

I wouldn't say you can't use those SPD's just that it may increase possibility of trip.

SPD before and after the GFCI might be desirable. Some items have SP built into them and you may or may not know it either.

 

[PaulMmn]

Keep in mind that you can't use devices with surge protection after a GFCI such as outlet strips that have surge protection or, I would even imagine a UPS with surge protection (depending on where the MOVs are located).

They will result in an intermittent trip of the GFCI whenever there is a surge, spike or other condition that causes the MOVs to conduct to ground. The surge protection is just doing it's job but so is the GFCI. This can be a big problem.

Better to forgo the plug-in surge protection and install one at the panel.

-Hal

Go for a Zero-Surge surge protector (https://zerosurge.com/)-- no MOVs! Uses a coil of wire (story I heard was the original design had a coil of wire around a core of rusty finishing nails) to absorb the surge, then gently release the surge to the neutral (not ground) wire.

I've got 4 of them and, although it's negative proof, haven't had any power surge related issues, although they sometimes HUMMMmmm during an electrical storm.

(Not associated with Zero-Surge, just a satisfied customer)

ps-- no GFCIs in the circuits with the ZeroSurges (It's an older house).

 

[hbiss]

The current shunted to ground still needs to be more than the trip threshold to trip the GFCI.

I wouldn't say you can't use those SPD's just that it may increase possibility of trip.

SPD before and after the GFCI might be desirable. Some items have SP built into them and you may or may not know it either.

My wife bought an "outlet expander" that plugs into a duplex receptacle. It has surge protection with the LEDs that show the status. She plugged it into the bathroom GFCI receptacle and at least once a month I have to pull it out to reset the GFCI. So apparently there normally are spikes or surges that will exceed the trip threshold.

We also have had posts here from people wanting to know why their GFCIs are randomly tripping and it turned out that they were using SPS after the GFCI.

-Hal

 

[kwired]

My wife bought an "outlet expander" that plugs into a duplex receptacle. It has surge protection with the LEDs that show the status. She plugged it into the bathroom GFCI receptacle and at least once a month I have to pull it out to reset the GFCI. So apparently there normally are spikes or surges that will exceed the trip threshold.

We also have had posts here from people wanting to know why their GFCIs are randomly tripping and it turned out that they were using SPS after the GFCI.

-Hal

Ground current to ground still had to be more than the 4-6 mA trip level of the GFCI to cause it to trip on current issues.

Inductive kickback or RF issues go deeper into what causes the GFCI to trip.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I just checked 2017 210.8 (A) to (E) and see no mention of having to GFCI 240 volt receptacles in residential garages and accessory buildings. Just 15 and 20 amp 125 volt receptacles.

So, the table saw should be on 240, so no GFCI needed. OK, small contractor table saws are considered portable tools, so they are 120 volt and cord connected, so GFCI applies here.

I have one GFCI in the garage that trips on what I think is thunderstorm spikes. Never trips while I am in the garage. Only a stereo is plugged in to that circuit.

The voltage limit on the residential GFCI requirement will change in the 2020 code. The following is from the 2020 Second Revision Report and will likely be the language that appears in the 2020 code.

(A) Dwelling Units. All 125-volt through 250-volt receptacles installed in the locations specified in 210.8(A)(1) through (A)(11) and supplied by single-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts or less to ground shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

 

[kwired]

The voltage limit on the residential GFCI requirement will change in the 2020 code. The following is from the 2020 Second Revision Report and will likely be the language that appears in the 2020 code.

Same lame justification for changes in 2017 to 210.8(B) I would assume? All I could find for that was essentially something like "we now have such devices", rather than statistics that showed there actually was increased number of incidents of shock for such installs that ended up being included in the mix.

As is so far it looks like most the time ranges in a kitchen will not need it, unless the receptacle is within 6 feet of the sink. The dryer, most likely will require GFCI as it is typically in "laundry areas". Most other 240 volt receptacles other than maybe a large window AC or PTAC type unit are often going to be in areas that would require GFCI protection.

I find this unnecessary myself, but can't do much about it. I have no problem with most the GFCI requirements before 2017, there is legitimate concern for increased risk of shock with many of those situations, now they are just being pushed by the manufacturers to put this into code similar to how AFCI's got pushed, "because we can" is their primary basis of why they want the protection rather than "do we need to?".