GFCI testing question.

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76nemo

76nemo

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Ogdensburg, NY
I have the Ideal 61-165 and have heard of the 1653 from Fluke and the T+Pro. I have given this much thought, from what little capacity I have:roll:

Anyone have any theory on why these testers use ungrounded to to grounding loops? Two-wire is permitted protected by a L-N protection/ungrounded to grounded protection. These testers are not utilizling this theory or protection. Want to give a good explaination for the reason?

I am baffled to the design of these tests from such prominent companies.

Feel like adding to this????
 
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In case anyone here wants to know, the Ideal 61-165 is a GFI/AFI circuit tester/analyzer:

61-165.jpg
 
I don't know a thing about the specific testers but if the question is what I think it is, why are the grounding and ungrounded conductors connected in some sense ,well, that's what's necessary to trip a GFCI.

Any current not returning through neutral is stray and unintended. So a tester wants to send current through the grounding conductor to see if the GFCI is going to notice the current that isn't returning through the grounded conductor.
 
Physis 3 said:
I don't know a thing about the specific testers but if the question is what I think it is, why are the grounding and ungrounded conductors connected in some sense ,well, that's what's necessary to trip a GFCI.

Any current not returning through neutral is stray and unintended. So a tester wants to send current through the grounding conductor to see if the GFCI is going to notice the current that isn't returning through the grounded conductor.
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Thus is true. I am referring to any services only bonded at the SE. Why are these testers applying load to L-PE/ungrounded to grounding? A two-wire service is permitted with protection from L-N/ungrounded to grounded, why not L-N or ungrounded to grounded in two-wire?
 
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wptski said:
It doesn't work on a two wire system.
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But why and how? A GFCI is intended to function that way. What am I missing???????? If they don't work on two-wire, I have just had my ass handed to me. Nothing new!
 
Are you talking about using a GFCI as a replacement receptacle where there's no grounding conductor?
 
76nemo said:
But why and how? A GFCI is intended to function that way. What am I missing???????? If they don't work on two-wire, I have just had my ass handed to me. Nothing new!
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Might be because there is a seperate UL Standard for GFCI testers, I forget the number and they chose to support only three wire systems??
 
Here's how to test a GFCI:

[1] push the test button.

Not good enough?

[2] stick a piece of 12 gauge in the hot slot, poor a bottle of beer, preferably miller, ik, in some dirt somewhere near a grounding electrode and put the other end of the 12 gauge (stripped) into the beer dirt.
 
76nemo said:
Yes! Your question is right!
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Ok, then you only have to mark your receptacles as "not grounded".

Edit:

And your tester will not work in this case.
 
The T+Pro must have one lead connected to PE, via water line or beer dirt and one lead to the "hot slot" of the GFCI, then push the test button on the Fluke. The GFCI will trip. This method works as long as the system is grounded even if an EGC is not in use.

The method described by Physis, although not a recommended procedure, will work via the neutral slot minus the beer. Safer than the hot slot and then we can save to buy better beer.
 
ptonsparky said:
The T+Pro must have one lead connected to PE, via water line or beer dirt and one lead to the "hot slot" of the GFCI, then push the test button on the Fluke. The GFCI will trip. This method works as long as the system is grounded even if an EGC is not in use.

The method described by Physis, although not a recommended procedure, will work via the neutral slot minus the beer. Safer than the hot slot and then we can save to buy better beer.
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That's the point! These GFCI testers need L-PE to do the test. Although N-G(PE) are connected at the service enterance, a L-N connection of the tester doesn't trip a GFCI on a two system.
 
Physis 3 said:
Here's how to test a GFCI:

[1] push the test button.

Not good enough?

[2] stick a piece of 12 gauge in the hot slot, poor a bottle of beer, preferably miller, ik, in some dirt somewhere near a grounding electrode and put the other end of the 12 gauge (stripped) into the beer dirt.
Click to expand...


I gave up on the test button long ago for any/all GFCI's. I personally have found two that the test button did seem to trip/activate, and still had voltage present on both ungrounded wipers! Yes, they were the early ones.
 
76nemo said:
I gave up on the test button long ago for any/all GFCI's. I personally have found two that the test button did seem to trip/activate, and still had voltage present on both ungrounded wipers! Yes, they were the early ones.
Click to expand...

The only test accepted by UL and the GFCI manufacturers is the test button. At least that is my understanding.

If you push the test button, and there is still voltage, the GFCI is bad.
 
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