electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
......and then you need an SPD for the AFCI protecting the SPD......
Gfci TIA for Ranges
- Thread starter Dennis Alwon
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- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
I don't see the SPD as an outlet, so AFCI protection of the SPD is not required.
mbrooke
Batteries Included
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- United States
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- Technician
Simple thermal magnetic technologies do not need SPDs to insure they remain operative.
brycenesbitt
Senior Member
- Location
- United States
There is an issue other than cost: energy. Each one draws 1 to 2 Watts of power, 24/7/365, times millions of devices.
We're talking megawatts of power over the life of the rule, multiple nuclear power plants.
That's balanced against potential savings in materials should a GFCI, well, prevent a fire. If that happens.
winnie
Senior Member
- Location
- Springfield, MA, USA
- Occupation
- Electric motor research
I know that it is possible to build an electromagnetic device that triggers on ground fault in the multiple amp range, and I believe it is possible in the 100s of mA range.
Does anyone know if it is practical to build a non electronic or at least self powered class-A gfci?
Jon
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
mbrooke
Batteries Included
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- United States
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- Technician
winnie
Senior Member
- Location
- Springfield, MA, USA
- Occupation
- Electric motor research
Wow. Pure electromagnetic tripping with a _single_ turn of the 'sense' coil. That might actually trip at 5mA if you had 20 turns of the sensing wire.
-Jon
-Jon
mbrooke
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- United States
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Still a bit complex from an unlatching sense, but FAR more reliable. No surge susceptibility or electronics to fail.
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
winnie
Senior Member
- Location
- Springfield, MA, USA
- Occupation
- Electric motor research
Possibly. My _guess_ is that the resistor sets the test current value, and the trip current is set by the characteristics of the residual current test transformer.
Clive gave the resistor value, and I estimated about 200mA current flow to test operation.
-Jon
Buck Parrish
Senior Member
- Location
- NC & IN
What does " F " represent ?Bingo! Thank you bringing up those ground switches!I thought no one would. Until the CMPs learn electrical theory, it will only get worse if not more dangerous.
Again, for our code members:
View attachment 2556505
mbrooke
Batteries Included
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- United States
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- Technician
Frequency. According to the equation, the higher the frequency or rising edge, the greater the leakage current to ground will be present.
IMHO
Last edited:
yuhong
Member
- Location
- Burnaby, BC
I once suggested a compromise for EV charging that allow a circuit breaker near the outlet to be used in place of GFCI for NEMA 14-50 and like, which is similar to what is used for RV parks.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
That is typical for RV parks simply because you generally run a feeder circuit out to supply multiple sites and you need a branch circuit device before you supply the outlet. AFAIK 2020 will require GFCI on that as well.
Fiddling Fiddler
Member
- Location
- Wyoming
Another code change that was promoted by the manufacturers, without any testing or research to determine if their product is compatible with the existing product. ( appliances)
if this is really a necessary “safety device” why aren’t the equipment manufacturers providing GFCI protection in their equipment, rather than expecting the electrical contractor to do their research and development for them.
if this is really a necessary “safety device” why aren’t the equipment manufacturers providing GFCI protection in their equipment, rather than expecting the electrical contractor to do their research and development for them.
Fred B
Senior Member
- Location
- Upstate, NY
- Occupation
- Electrician
Is an SPD "utilization equipment" as stated within the codes definition of an outlet? Not really making arguement for AFCI on a SPD but does the internal circuitry use power or just monitor it? I know several have an indicator light that shows it is functioning so that would seem to be using power all be it minimal.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
It remains my opinion that the SPD is not utilization equipment. Indicator lights do not make it such, and it does no useful "work".
Fred B
Senior Member
- Location
- Upstate, NY
- Occupation
- Electrician
Code reference to "useful work" please?
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Look at the actual definition in the code book. All of the things listed do useful work.
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