Gfci TIA for Ranges

Makes sense if they are pushing blame for AFCI/GFCI failure (neusence tripping) as transients from surge. Also all the sensitive electronics inside the AFCI/GFCI breakers.

Add a twist, So if the panel box is located in an area that would normally require AFCI protection (ie living room) adding the surge protection devices like I've seen that are wired, to seperate external (to the panel box) device does the SPD require AFCI protection?
......and then you need an SPD for the AFCI protecting the SPD......🤔
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Makes sense if they are pushing blame for AFCI/GFCI failure (neusence tripping) as transients from surge. Also all the sensitive electronics inside the AFCI/GFCI breakers.

Add a twist, So if the panel box is located in an area that would normally require AFCI protection (ie living room) adding the surge protection devices like I've seen that are wired, to seperate external (to the panel box) device does the SPD require AFCI protection?
I don't see the SPD as an outlet, so AFCI protection of the SPD is not required.
 

brycenesbitt

Senior Member
Location
United States
While I don't agree with some of the new requirements for GFCI protection, especially central A/C equipment, in most case there will not be any issues other than the cost of the GFCI.
There is an issue other than cost: energy. Each one draws 1 to 2 Watts of power, 24/7/365, times millions of devices.
We're talking megawatts of power over the life of the rule, multiple nuclear power plants.

That's balanced against potential savings in materials should a GFCI, well, prevent a fire. If that happens.
 

winnie

Senior Member
Location
Springfield, MA, USA
Occupation
Electric motor research
There is an issue other than cost: energy. Each one draws 1 to 2 Watts of power, 24/7/365, times millions of devices.
I know that it is possible to build an electromagnetic device that triggers on ground fault in the multiple amp range, and I believe it is possible in the 100s of mA range.

Does anyone know if it is practical to build a non electronic or at least self powered class-A gfci?

Jon
 

romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
I know that it is possible to build an electromagnetic device that triggers on ground fault in the multiple amp range, and I believe it is possible in the 100s of mA range.

Does anyone know if it is practical to build a non electronic or at least self powered class-A gfci?

Jon
actually, i'm an a mission to do just that Winne

~RJ~
 

winnie

Senior Member
Location
Springfield, MA, USA
Occupation
Electric motor research
Wow. Pure electromagnetic tripping with a _single_ turn of the 'sense' coil. That might actually trip at 5mA if you had 20 turns of the sensing wire.

-Jon
 

mbrooke

Batteries Not Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Electricity
Wow. Pure electromagnetic tripping with a _single_ turn of the 'sense' coil. That might actually trip at 5mA if you had 20 turns of the sensing wire.

-Jon

Still a bit complex from an unlatching sense, but FAR more reliable. No surge susceptibility or electronics to fail.
 

winnie

Senior Member
Location
Springfield, MA, USA
Occupation
Electric motor research
or maybe change the resistor value?
Possibly. My _guess_ is that the resistor sets the test current value, and the trip current is set by the characteristics of the residual current test transformer.

Clive gave the resistor value, and I estimated about 200mA current flow to test operation.

-Jon
 
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