GFI for refrigerator by bar sink

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donselec

donselec

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Aurora, CO, USA
I know, in a residential kitchen, the Code allows a refrigerator to be on a non-GFI circuit. However, if the fridge is near a bar sink, it must be on a GFI, because all outlets within 6' of a bar sink must be GFI protected, even for refrigerators. NEC 210.8(A)(7). This seems inconsistent. Is it a mistake, or are they working to change it, or is there a reason for it?
 
Yeah , it does seem a bit funny. Like in a kitchen all receptacles that serve counter surfaces are required to be GFCI protected , at a wet bar only 6' from the sink?? And there is no linear counter space reqiurement for placement.
 
It would not surprise me if we see in the next code that Refrigerators must be on a GFCI.

I read some of the ROP's on this and there were a few proposals to change art. 210.8 (A)(7) but they were rejected.

Apparently the panel feels that GFI's do not have the nuisance trip problems like they use to.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
It would not surprise me if we see in the next code that Refrigerators must be on a GFCI.

Apparently the panel feels that GFI's do not have the nuisance trip problems like they use to.
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This could become a real problem. It's been my experience that refrigerators are notorious for GFI trip problems. I don't know if it's the compressor starting or stopping that is the cause but I've seen it happen more often than not. I can't even begin to count the number of times I've been to a house where the homeowners find it necessary to locate an additional refrigerator in their garage where the receptacles are GFI protected. The call I usually get sounds something like " There must be a short or something because I've lost the food in the refer two times in the last week".

Lucky for them they caught it when they did. I believe there was a story recently, of a family somewhere in the min-west, who went on vacation, had their refrigerator go out because of a lengthly power failure, the food in the freezer defrosted and then re-froze when the power came back on. Upon their return they ate some of that food and all perished.
 
goldstar said:
This could become a real problem. It's been my experience that refrigerators are notorious for GFI trip problems.
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I have a refrigerator in my basement on a gfi for 4 years now without a problem. But there is no doubt the odds are in favor of more trouble with a GFI
 
donselec said:
I'm not saying I don't follow the Code, I'm just saying it seems inconsistent and I wondered if there was a reason for it.
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I think Pierre was responding to Cavie's comment.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
What else do you not follow code for if it causes you inconvienence???
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Which code violation are you referring to?:confused: There is no requirement for a fridge to be on a GFCI. (I am assuming the person who posted his refusal to put fridge on GFCI is referring to a kitchen).
Art 210.8(A)(5) states GFCI protected recepts are required for those which serve the COUNTERTOP SURFACES.
Maybe we are talking about a small fridge which could fir on the countertop.:rolleyes:
 
bstoin said:
Which code violation are you referring to?:confused: There is no requirement for a fridge to be on a GFCI. (I am assuming the person who posted his refusal to put fridge on GFCI is referring to a kitchen).
Art 210.8(A)(5) states GFCI protected recepts are required for those which serve the COUNTERTOP SURFACES.
Maybe we are talking about a small fridge which could fir on the countertop.:rolleyes:
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Try reading the OP :rolleyes:
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
Try reading the OP :rolleyes:
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Yeah, I read the OP. It didn't seem to me that he blatantly refused to follow any code, only that there was some confusion he wished to clear up. I don't think there is any reason to accuse anyone of refusing to comply to code if they have a general question.
 
bstoin said:
Yeah, I read the OP. It didn't seem to me that he blatantly refused to follow any code, only that there was some confusion he wished to clear up. I don't think there is any reason to accuse anyone of refusing to comply to code if they have a general question.
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I believe you are missing a few details.
 
paul said:
Could you please point out these missing details? I, too, fail to see where anyone refused to follow the code in this thread.
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bstoin said:
Yeah, I read the OP. It didn't seem to me that he blatantly refused to follow any code, only that there was some confusion he wished to clear up. I don't think there is any reason to accuse anyone of refusing to comply to code if they have a general question.
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Nobody failed to comply with the code-- it was the intent if the code changed.

The op questioned the accurracy of why a refrigerator next to a laundry sink has to be on a GFI according to the code as written today but it does not have to be in the kitchen if the refrig. were next to the sink.

I stated it wouldn't surprise me if the kitchen refrigerator would soon be required to be on a GFCI.

Cavie responded that his refrigerator would never be on a GFCI-- implying he would not follow the code for his refrigerator.

That's when Pierre made his statement.
 
If I have an appliance that trips a GFCI or an Arc Fault device I start asking why is this appliance doing this.

Does not the GFCI only open when there is a difference in the current between the two conductors?
If there is a difference in the current wouldn?t the lost current have to be going somewhere else?
Where is the lost current going?

Maybe it is time to get a new appliance instead of a different receptacle.

This reminds me of an electrician that installed a bunch of wire that let all the smoke out. I have always wondered why the conductor couldn?t be bent over to stop all those electrons from running out, you know like you bend the end of the garden hose to stop the water.

Guess I will need to hire someone to stand by my panel and reset the arc faults after the new cycle of the NEC comes out, darn refrigerator. I just bought that darn thing in 56. It was one of the last of the ?real? refrigerators left.
 
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