GFI Main Breaker?

[Power Tech]

A customer bought a building with 6 bays. Each bay has a 1 phase 100 amp meter / main. There are no ground wires pulled in steel flex. 2 wire self grounding receptacles.
He was spraying bleach to get rid of some mold and got some on the receptacle. It hit the side of the box (handy) and would not trip. He found the main breaker and called me. I went and there was a 20 amp breaker feeding a #14 gage TW. #12 leaving the panel to a j-box connected to a 3 14's. It's a mess. Pulled the breaker and had it tested - Result - Bad breaker. He doesn't want to rewire and change all the panels.

Is there a GFI main breaker made for a plug in panel. All advice appreciated.

 

[480sparky]

Even if there were, I'd call it a very bad design choice. One 5ma fault anywhwere and everything goes.

 

[Rewire]

What is the point of putting in a GFI main breaker when it sounds like you have oversized breakers on the branch circuits.

 

[jim dungar]

The largest GFCI breaker (5mA trip) is 60A 2-pole 3-wire.

There are other GFI breakers (trip level above 5mA) but they are not for 'people protection'.

 

[480sparky]

What is the point of putting in a GFI main breaker when it sounds like you have oversized breakers on the branch circuits.

Uh, 14 is good for 20 all day long. It's not until you get to 240.4(D) that it changes.

 

[PCN]

Even if there were, I'd call it a very bad design choice. One 5ma fault anywhwere and everything goes.

Not to mention way expensive. I'd just clean up the branch circuits myself.

 

[Rewire]

Uh, 14 is good for 20 all day long. It's not until you get to 240.4(D) that it changes.

The OP reference receptacles,without an exception noted in 240.4(E) or (G) then 240.4(D) would apply and the breakers are oversized.

 

[480sparky]

The OP reference receptacles,without an exception noted in 240.4(E) or (G) then 240.4(D) would apply and the breakers are oversized.

Without knowing what those receptacles are for, we can't say for sure.

 

[Rewire]

Without knowing what those receptacles are for, we can't say for sure.

They are suppling a receptacle outlet. Their is nothing in 240.4(E) or (G) about conductors suppling a receptacle outlet.

 

[480sparky]

They are suppling a receptacle outlet. Their is nothing in 240.4(E) or (G) about conductors suppling a receptacle outlet.

So that implies you can install a receptacle since it is not specifically prohibited.

 

[Rewire]

So that implies you can install a receptacle since it is not specifically prohibited.

yes as long as you properly size the wire to the breaker which in this case it is not.

 

[480sparky]

yes as long as you properly size the wire to the breaker which in this case it is not.

Plug in a motor.

 

[Rewire]

Plug in a motor.

plug in a TV. 240.4(G) references "Specific Conductor Applications" A receptacle outlet is not referenced .You can have an outlet with a motor pluged into it you just cannot use 240.4(G) to size your wires and breaker.

 

[480sparky]

plug in a TV. 240.4(G) references "Specific Conductor Applications" A receptacle outlet is not referenced .You can have an outlet with a motor pluged into it you just cannot use 240.4(G) to size your wires and breaker.

Who says it's a 120v 15 or 20a recep?

 

[Rewire]

Who says it's a 120v 15 or 20a recep?

who said it wasn't.

 

[480sparky]

who said it wasn't?

See post 8.

 

[Rewire]

See post 8.

It still doesn't matter.

 

[480sparky]

It still doesn't matter.

Since there're no reference to receptacles in 240.4, I'd say you can put one in because there's no code that says you can't.

 

[Rewire]

210.21 (B) 1 and 2 see table 210.21(B)(2)
210.19 (A) 4

your not going to win this one code is on my side

 

[480sparky]

210.21 (B) 1 and 2 see table 210.21(B)(2)
210.19 (A) 4

your not going to win this one code is on my side

None of those have anything to do with conductor sizes.

20a breaker. #14. 20a receptacle for a motor.