GFP in AFCI breakers

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Since I have caught so much flak already, I'll explain more. :roll:

Last week I did a small job at a house where I added a few new circuits. I installed AFCI protection for those circuits. I also replaced a device but I did not add AFCI protection for that circuit. Yup, not compliant to the letter of the code but if you think I'm concerned about an AFCI to replace a light switch, think again.
 
peter d said:
Since I have caught so much flak already, I'll explain more. :roll:

Last week I did a small job at a house where I added a few new circuits. I installed AFCI protection for those circuits. I also replaced a device but I did not add AFCI protection for that circuit. Yup, not compliant to the letter of the code but if you think I'm concerned about an AFCI to replace a light switch, think again.
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When/if peter D goes down below, he will spend eternity retrofitting AFCI'S, AND none of the wires will be long enough and all they will give him is red buchanan wire nuts :lol:
 
peter d said:
Since I have caught so much flak already, I'll explain more. :roll:

Last week I did a small job at a house where I added a few new circuits. I installed AFCI protection for those circuits. I also replaced a device but I did not add AFCI protection for that circuit. Yup, not compliant to the letter of the code but if you think I'm concerned about an AFCI to replace a light switch, think again.
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I fail to see any revelance your post has other than you wish to point out that you do illegal things, do not care, and wish to brag about it.

Did I miss something? If so, enlighten me please.:)
 
jumper said:
I fail to see any revelance your post has other than you wish to point out that you do illegal things, do not care, and wish to brag about it.

Did I miss something? If so, enlighten me please.:)
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Again, "illegal"? That's laughable at best. :lol::lol: But your "holier than thou" attitude is getting really tiresome. I'm not bragging, I'm simply stating the reality of what many electricians do every day.
 
peter d said:
We don't get inspections for small half day jobs to install a few new outlets, and no other sane contractor does. Yes, it's true, lots of electrical work gets done without an inspector (aka government hack) ever looking at it.



No.
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What we all do at times may not be 100% legit, including me by all means, but we do not have to post such stuff here.

IMO, best to not talk about it. Kinda understand my point now?
 
jumper said:
What we all do at times may not be 100% legit, including me by all means, but we do not have to post such stuff here.

IMO, best to not talk about it. Kinda understand my point now?
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Oh, so everything said must be perfect and utopian. Got it. :roll::roll:
 
Homeline has GFP. It can be a royal pain sometimes. I'd rather use AFCI's without the GFP function but I don't have a choice in the matter since we have a Square D Homeline discount at the supplier. I always try to match the panel to the breaker on service and reno work but even that doesn't always happen depending on the WIT (what's in the truck) factor and how far the closest supplier/HD/Lowes is.
 
jumper said:
Not sure what you mean?

I am by no means an advocate of AFCI.

I just will refuse to publicly condone non compliance nor idly sit by when it is posted.
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The problem is that "non-compliance" is highly subjective. Several states have declared and decided that the AFCI is not necessary at all, while others have bought the AFCI hook, line and sinker. It's far too much of a grey area to justify such dogmatism in my opinion.
 
peter d said:
Homeline has GFP. It can be a royal pain sometimes. I'd rather use AFCI's without the GFP function but I don't have a choice in the matter since we have a Square D Homeline discount at the supplier.
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I figured Homeline would, I know that the SquareD still has it (it's what I use)

I went to help a buddy, cause he was scratching his head on a problem (gnd to neutral on a GE panel)
It was throwing him for a loop because he had a mix of old and new breakers (new ones not having GFP). I knew that the new GEs didn't have it.
I was hoping to find out for sure what other mfr's were taking it out. Helps out with the troubleshooting when you know what you're dealing with.

As for AFCI's, I know a guy who knows a guy who rarely installs them ;)
 
jumper said:
Not sure what you mean?

I am by no means an advocate of AFCI.

I just will refuse to publicly condone non compliance nor idly sit by when it is posted.
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Understood ,and appreciated that this place stays as pro as can be Jumper

But i like to dig, investigate , and ask a lot of questions.

So, during my little GE surf , i came to what appears to be the patent information that makes a GE afci a rather extraordinary , if not exclusive product.

In fact, if you read all of what it allegedly incorporates , it's a rather amazing feat.

So, which NRTL tested it? What parameters were used in the testing? How did it pass each (there are usually many) tests involved? What was left out, what was let in by said tests? Why did they feel the need to test to a different standard? Who was involved in the testing? Did they write periodicals in trade rags, or IEEE materials?

You see, other than obtaining specifics , we may as well argue

the number of angles on a pin

~RJ~
 
romex jockey said:
All "digital video image data values and discrete wavelet processing" aside, the chief component ,the time honored toroidal coil , remains unchanged here.
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romex jockey said:
What about the patent info i posted above?
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RJ, your patent info is over a quarter century old and can't possibly be written about the post 2012 GE Combination AFCI. . . . and as for the GE Combination AFCI and toroids, I have not broken any open to see if transformers or chokes are incorporated, but, so what if they do have mu-metal toroids in their construction? The GE Combination AFCI is very recently documented as being able to work just fine even when the branch circuit neutral doesn't run through the breaker. That directly means there is NO ground fault sensing happening in GE's Combination AFCI.
 
jumper said:
Only in part.

I agree with you that AFCIs are worthless and a total con job rip off.
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:thumbsup:

I will never agree that not installing them when lawfully required to do so is legal, nor that publicly stating such here is okay.
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I only stated what I do, I never told anyone what they should do. Everyone must make up their own mind on this issue. Again, I'm simply stating as fact that I know what happens in my area. Is it right by the letter of the law? No. But is it wrong morally not to install AFCI's? In my opinion, no, it is not morally wrong since the AFCI itself is, as you put it, worthless and a con job.
 
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