Give me a section in the code book....
- Thread starter lle
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Logan, Utah
Re: Give me a section in the code book....
Also check out article 402 for fixture wires specifically 402.11 for uses not permitted. The wires between the cans and the switches are branch circuit conductors.
Chris
Also check out article 402 for fixture wires specifically 402.11 for uses not permitted. The wires between the cans and the switches are branch circuit conductors.
Chris
Re: Give me a section in the code book....
I understand this, I really do, I may seem like I'm in the dark, but I'm not.
I started with a city as a building inspector that allowed this practice and I went through all kinds of hell with my fellow inspector and the contractors in the area when I failed my first inspection upon seeing this.
After a call to the NEC and ICC the "acting" building official realized that it was a violation and backed me on future inspections and sent a memo out to the "acting" (key word) electricians who had been doing this for 20 years that they would be failed if continued.
Now, I left and went back to twisting wires for a living, which is a lot less stressful, but I got word that the new "acting" (key word again) Building Official (not one cert under his belt) overturned this ruling by the other "acting" Building Official as is allowing this practice again.
ARGH!
I just want to print this off and shove it ..... never mind.
Thank you for allowing me to vent.
I understand this, I really do, I may seem like I'm in the dark, but I'm not.
I started with a city as a building inspector that allowed this practice and I went through all kinds of hell with my fellow inspector and the contractors in the area when I failed my first inspection upon seeing this.
After a call to the NEC and ICC the "acting" building official realized that it was a violation and backed me on future inspections and sent a memo out to the "acting" (key word) electricians who had been doing this for 20 years that they would be failed if continued.
Now, I left and went back to twisting wires for a living, which is a lot less stressful, but I got word that the new "acting" (key word again) Building Official (not one cert under his belt) overturned this ruling by the other "acting" Building Official as is allowing this practice again.
ARGH!
I just want to print this off and shove it ..... never mind.
Thank you for allowing me to vent.
speedypetey
Senior Member
- Location
- Hudson Valley, NY
Re: Give me a section in the code book....
OK...but why bother???
Wire the room in #12 or in #14. Why mix wire sizes?
This has always been considered poor workmanship. A circuit should remain the same wire size throughout.
OK...but why bother???
Wire the room in #12 or in #14. Why mix wire sizes?
This has always been considered poor workmanship. A circuit should remain the same wire size throughout.
Re: Give me a section in the code book....
posted several times on this. for some reason the "practice" has outlived most inspectors. No one has ever shown me when it was ever allowed by Code, but it was a standard practice in this area for many years and still accepted with State approval in limited circumstances. Been a real headache.
posted several times on this. for some reason the "practice" has outlived most inspectors. No one has ever shown me when it was ever allowed by Code, but it was a standard practice in this area for many years and still accepted with State approval in limited circumstances. Been a real headache.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: Give me a section in the code book....
Now there is a crock of crap. :roll:
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: Give me a section in the code book....
It is not a tap.
Your inspectors are morons.
It is not legal.
It is not a tap.
Your inspectors are morons.
ty
Senior Member
- Location
- 3rd Rock from the Sun
Re: Give me a section in the code book....
Second thread in a row, I agree with Scott.
lle,
your inspectors are probably looking at Table 310.16 which is not correct for this application.
They need to have Table 210.24 shoved in their faces and then they need to read 210.19 (all of it) again and again and again. And then do it all over agian.
Second thread in a row, I agree with Scott.
lle,
your inspectors are probably looking at Table 310.16 which is not correct for this application.
They need to have Table 210.24 shoved in their faces and then they need to read 210.19 (all of it) again and again and again. And then do it all over agian.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2023
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: Give me a section in the code book....
And then wash their mouths out with 240.4(D).
speedypetey
Senior Member
- Location
- Hudson Valley, NY
Re: Give me a section in the code book....
Explain.
Do you wire circuits with 12 and 14 mixed and then breaker at 15a?
If so WHY???
HUH???
Explain.
Do you wire circuits with 12 and 14 mixed and then breaker at 15a?
If so WHY???
ty
Senior Member
- Location
- 3rd Rock from the Sun
Re: Give me a section in the code book....
There are times that you might want to start the circut with #12 for voltage drop and change to #14 after. Fuse it with 15amp.
There are times that you might want to start the circut with #12 for voltage drop and change to #14 after. Fuse it with 15amp.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Give me a section in the code book....
Why?
Voltage drop.
We often make our homeruns 10 AWG to the first outlet than switch down to 12 AWG to complete the circuit. It should go with out saying that this would be a 20 amp circuit not a 30.
Speedy we often mix wire sizes and IMO when we do it is a sign of excellent workmanship.
Why?
Voltage drop.
We often make our homeruns 10 AWG to the first outlet than switch down to 12 AWG to complete the circuit. It should go with out saying that this would be a 20 amp circuit not a 30.
Re: Give me a section in the code book....
iwire i agree with you on increasing wire size for voltage drop, but i'm sure your OPD covers the smaller wire size.
There are not too many residential installations that I feel would require worrying about voltage drops.
I'm just glad I'm back pulling wires for a living....it's easier to fight city hall on this side.
iwire i agree with you on increasing wire size for voltage drop, but i'm sure your OPD covers the smaller wire size.
There are not too many residential installations that I feel would require worrying about voltage drops.
I'm just glad I'm back pulling wires for a living....it's easier to fight city hall on this side.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: Give me a section in the code book....
Bob, if the home runs are that long, a sub-panel might be in order. We just finished a 7500 sq.ft.+ house, and ran a sub-panel out of each 200-amp panel (one on generator) to the other end of the house for better performance.
Bob, if the home runs are that long, a sub-panel might be in order. We just finished a 7500 sq.ft.+ house, and ran a sub-panel out of each 200-amp panel (one on generator) to the other end of the house for better performance.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Give me a section in the code book....
Picture a big box store, 300' x 400' of sales floor. They really do not like dropping sub panels in the middle of the sales floor.
The typical job spec for us is bump up a size for each 100' of run from the panel.
Besides adding a 'sub' does not necessarily increase performance if the feeder is not sized for VD as well.
Larry they are not homes and we can not add sub panels.
Picture a big box store, 300' x 400' of sales floor. They really do not like dropping sub panels in the middle of the sales floor.
The typical job spec for us is bump up a size for each 100' of run from the panel.
Besides adding a 'sub' does not necessarily increase performance if the feeder is not sized for VD as well.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Give me a section in the code book....
I have done homes where it was required to use #10 nm for hr`s.over 150 ft to panel So #10 marked 20 amp only and finish in # 12.But this should only be done where needed and not on a daily basis like #12 feed and #14 sw legs IMO that is cheap not legal that caused that scenario.
I have done homes where it was required to use #10 nm for hr`s.over 150 ft to panel So #10 marked 20 amp only and finish in # 12.But this should only be done where needed and not on a daily basis like #12 feed and #14 sw legs IMO that is cheap not legal that caused that scenario.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: Give me a section in the code book....
As for sub-panels, load diversity works for these feeders as well as it does for main feeders. I did load calculation.
As we both know, every job is unique. I like to say, "If it were easy, everyone would be doing it."
I grok. I ran a #6 feed for a 20-amp circuit to exterior lighting on a commercial project, so I am familair with the practice.Originally posted by iwire:
Larry they are not homes and we can not add sub panels.
Picture a big box store, 300' x 400' of sales floor. They really do not like dropping sub panels in the middle of the sales floor.
The typical job spec for us is bump up a size for each 100' of run from the panel.
Besides adding a 'sub' does not necessarily increase performance if the feeder is not sized for VD as well.
As for sub-panels, load diversity works for these feeders as well as it does for main feeders. I did load calculation.
As we both know, every job is unique. I like to say, "If it were easy, everyone would be doing it."
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