Give me a section in the code book....

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Re: Give me a section in the code book....

An inspector once told me on a 15A circuit you should not feed a #14 with a #12. His reason was the #14 could heat up enough to trip the 15A breaker but with the #12 being a heaver ga and being before it the breaker wouldn't sense there was a problem with the #14. What do you think?
 
Re: Give me a section in the code book....

Originally posted by 110.12:
An inspector once told me on a 15A circuit you should not feed a #14 with a #12. His reason was the #14 could heat up enough to trip the 15A breaker but with the #12 being a heaver ga and being before it the breaker wouldn't sense there was a problem with the #14. What do you think?
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He is out of his mind?
 
Re: Give me a section in the code book....

110.12, you missed a perfect opportunity to sell a fool some ocean front property in the desert. ;)

Roger
 
Re: Give me a section in the code book....

Originally posted by iwire:
Originally posted by speedypetey:
Why mix wire sizes?
This has always been considered poor workmanship. A circuit should remain the same wire size throughout.
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Speedy we often mix wire sizes and IMO when we do it is a sign of excellent workmanship.

Why?
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Because, like me, you only keep 12-2 UF in the trailer, so a 14-2 switchleg though the building gets attached to a 12-2 underground run to the pole? Small world!

Voltage drop.
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Doh! :eek:
 
Re: Give me a section in the code book....

Voltage drop.
I understand that, but the original post is about 12& 14 NM in a house and I was implying more along those lines. Not a commercial/industrial setting where service & maintenance are typically done by qualified personnel.
Even at that I would probably prefer keep the whole circuit the same size. I have not done any heavy commercial/industrial work in a few years, and never had to engineer it. This was always done by the engineer who drew the prints. So pardon my lack of expereince/memory.
In a large home I would typically figure in a sub-panel somewhere in these cases.

I am talking more along the lines of Allenwayne's last post.
 
Re: Give me a section in the code book....

Originally posted by 110.12:
An inspector once told me on a 15A circuit you should not feed a #14 with a #12. His reason was the #14 could heat up enough to trip the 15A breaker but with the #12 being a heaver ga and being before it the breaker wouldn't sense there was a problem with the #14. What do you think?
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I think that the inspector is under the impression that a breaker works by sensing the temperature of the wire attached to its terminal.

Holy moley! :eek:
 
Re: Give me a section in the code book....

Petey I mix 14 and 12 on a circuit very often. I do alot of kitchen remodels that are not gutted. I will use an existing 20 amp circuit that is not needed at its current location to feed a new lighting circuit. If there is some #12 that is not going to be reused and will reach between switch boxes to extend a lighting feed I'll use it for that. Beats having to just rip it out because it is not #14.

I'd call this a smart practice not a bad practice.

There's is no reason a circuit has to remain the same wire size throughout provided with proper ocp.

[ January 07, 2006, 07:21 AM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
 
Re: Give me a section in the code book....

That`s the key ocpd at the panel.If not tagged for a max ocpd then some one will see a #12 and instantly put it on a 20 ocpd not looking at the #14 that someone added for what ever reason.To use #12 and #14 in a home is silly and dangerous why do this for pennies saved ;)
 
Re: Give me a section in the code book....

Originally posted by allenwayne:
If not tagged for a max ocpd then some one will see a #12 and instantly put it on a 20 ocpd
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Only a HACK or a FOOL would change the size of an overcurrent device without knowing what it is feeding.
 
Re: Give me a section in the code book....

Originally posted by 110.12:
An inspector once told me on a 15A circuit you should not feed a #14 with a #12. His reason was the #14 could heat up enough to trip the 15A breaker but with the #12 being a heaver ga and being before it the breaker wouldn't sense there was a problem with the #14. What do you think?
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Can we start a new forum section for "idiotic notions by inspectors"? Or "stupid inspector tricks"? I've got a few topics I've been biting my tongue on. ;)
 
Re: Give me a section in the code book....

Originally posted by j_erickson:
Can we start a new forum section for "idiotic notions by inspectors"? Or "stupid inspector tricks"? I've got a few topics I've been biting my tongue on. :D

[ January 07, 2006, 08:55 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
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Re: Give me a section in the code book....

Originally posted by iwire:
Originally posted by allenwayne:
If not tagged for a max ocpd then some one will see a #12 and instantly put it on a 20 ocpd
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Only a HACK or a FOOL would change the size of an overcurrent device without knowing what it is feeding.
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Bob, I totally agree. We do many residential service upgrades every year. When it comes time to strip out the old panel we inspect every wire attached to a circuit breaker and mark it with a corresponding wire marker for 15, 20, 30 if it doesn't match the standard #14 on a 15 amp, #12 on a 20 amp etc.

We have seen formerly abandoned electric dryer circuit reused to feed 15 amp receptacles that are extended with #14 wire tied to the old #10's. These would be on a 15 amp CB in the old panel. We would never assume that the #10's would simply go on a 30 amp CB in the new service.
 
Re: Give me a section in the code book....

Originally posted by allenwayne:
If not tagged for a max ocpd then some one will see a #12 and instantly put it on a 20 ocpd not looking at the #14 that someone added for what ever reason.
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Speaking from experience? :roll:

A good electrician would not do this. For the others who do this it is not up to me to save you from your own stupidity.


For the record I do tag the wires in this type of situation. Not always, and I am not required to.

[ January 07, 2006, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
 
Re: Give me a section in the code book....

Scott you are absolutly right, an electrican would not upsize an OCPD without knowing what the circuit was made up of and/or serving.

Roger

[ January 07, 2006, 09:15 AM: Message edited by: roger ]
 
Re: Give me a section in the code book....

Originally posted by speedypetey:
You never know who will be in that panel next.
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Nor is it any of my concern. There are too many things that can be easily mucked up in a panel, or with any other electrical system for anyone to reasonably expect that he can prevent future hack work.

My job as an electrician is to insure that I do all my work correctly.

What is hacked up after I leave is not my problem.

edit: to add, and it voids my warentee.

[ January 07, 2006, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: jbwhite ]
 
Re: Give me a section in the code book....

Originally posted by speedypetey:
Originally posted by iwire:
Only a HACK or a FOOL would change the size of an overcurrent device without knowing what it is feeding.
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Or a DIY'er. You never know who will be in that panel next.
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Pete IMO a DIY that would do that is a fool.

It is not my problem to protect idiots from their own stupid actions.

What is to stop that type of DIY from not connecting grounding wires, or installing the wrong size OCP for what ever work they do.
 
Re: Give me a section in the code book....

Whatever.
I am of the opinon that it is foolish to mix wire sizes in a residential circuit. Just my opinion so it is only worth something if you agree.


I do have a question for Scott and others here who would never upsize a breaker without knowing what the circuit feeds.
You are doing a residential service upgrade from fuses. The house is old and has a mix of wiring methods. EVERY fuse is a 30a.
How do you size your breakers???
 
Re: Give me a section in the code book....

Originally posted by speedypetey:
Whatever.
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Totally. :)

Originally posted by speedypetey:
I do have a question for Scott and others here who would never upsize a breaker without knowing what the circuit feeds.
You are doing a residential service upgrade from fuses. The house is old and has a mix of wiring methods. EVERY fuse is a 30a.
How do you size your breakers???
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In a case like that I would put them all on 15 amp breakers unless I could chase them down to verify they could be on 20s.
 
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