Great Noalox Debate - final resolution

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1983Rich

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Location
VA
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Master Electrician (VA), NABCEP PVIP
There is so much debate around using/not-using Noalox and many threads in this forum. Some electricians even use it on copper conductors.

Without starting a toxic thread, can someone share an authoritative source which can finally resolve the debate.

Please can someone point me towards a technical document like;
- NEMA
- UL
- American Wire Producers Association
- or IBEW Training guide

I have emailed wire manufactures directly to ask them. So far Encore have come back;
"No we do not require it on an any of our products. If you want to use it that is great but we do not require its use."

When other wire manufactures respond I'll add their responses here

Thank you, Rich
 
I would say Encore's reply covers it and other wire manufacturers would reply the same.
 
I may use it on Al rated screw in lugs as a anti-seize lubricant but never on the wire.
 
Thanks for this very interesting thread. I am a freak when it comes to connections, bonding, lug torque, all of it.

Here's where I sit on the issue:

When I bond large service conductors, I fully remove the Allen bolt and grease it with noalox. I do this because of the galling of aluminum, and it sticks and won't torque correctly.
I use it on every bond, copper to aluminum, copper to copper clad, EVERYTHING #8 and above. I don't use it on grounded connections, typically.
I also install ferrules, copper foil or swedge my own fittings from M type copper tubing.
I am CERTAIN that spreading the stranded wire under the torque of the Allen bolt is bad.

I could go on and on, but I think its the best practice method. It won't hurt TO use it, and I have seen corroded alum to copper bonds that heat up, streak with rainbow color, start to fail. Weirdly it's been on neutrals more than hot legs, so it seems...

Having wired dozens of restaurants, I have a practice of DOUBLING the service connection points on freezers. For example, a 75 cu. ft. freestanding freezer might come with a 240v plug, cord. I remove the cord, replace with #10 SOJ, replace receptacles with 50A rated range plug, socket. I've seen 4 different fires from OEM plugs, sockets.
 
herding_cats said:
Thanks for this very interesting thread. I am a freak when it comes to connections, bonding, lug torque, all of it.

Here's where I sit on the issue:

When I bond large service conductors, I fully remove the Allen bolt and grease it with noalox. I do this because of the galling of aluminum, and it sticks and won't torque correctly.
I use it on every bond, copper to aluminum, copper to copper clad, EVERYTHING #8 and above. I don't use it on grounded connections, typically.
I also install ferrules, copper foil or swedge my own fittings from M type copper tubing.
I am CERTAIN that spreading the stranded wire under the torque of the Allen bolt is bad.

I could go on and on, but I think its the best practice method. It won't hurt TO use it, and I have seen corroded alum to copper bonds that heat up, streak with rainbow color, start to fail. Weirdly it's been on neutrals more than hot legs, so it seems...

Having wired dozens of restaurants, I have a practice of DOUBLING the service connection points on freezers. For example, a 75 cu. ft. freestanding freezer might come with a 240v plug, cord. I remove the cord, replace with #10 SOJ, replace receptacles with 50A rated range plug, socket. I've seen 4 different fires from OEM plugs, sockets.
Click to expand...
Although those are good ideas
The tourqe spec is on a "dry" screw no lubricant
Replacing molded cord ends with a field install unless allowed in the instructions would be going against manufacturers instructions and also put the liability on you for any accidents or warranty issues. There's also the listing issue this brings up also.
 
The newer AL9000 is a different alloy than the older original Al conductor and produces far less oxide. The old wire actually would start skinning over with oxidation as soon as the covering was removed thus the practice of brushing and application of NOALOX.

Add it or not I don't know if it matters anymore on new wire, but don't see a need to go crazy with the goop so that it is slathered over everything like I've some guys do.

Only reference to antioxidant in the code is in 480.4(A) on battery terminals per mfg installation instructions or manual, and in 2017 NEC 706.31(A) again related to battery connection
 
letgomywago said:
Although those are good ideas
The tourqe spec is on a "dry" screw no lubricant
Replacing molded cord ends with a field install unless allowed in the instructions would be going against manufacturers instructions and also put the liability on you for any accidents or warranty issues. There's also the listing issue this brings up also.
Click to expand...
The OEM cord is the real fire hazard. Seen it too many times.
 
herding_cats said:
The OEM cord is the real fire hazard. Seen it too many times.
Click to expand...
Not saying you haven't seen it but I have also wired dozens restaurants, cafeterias, food courts, meat processing facilities, and the likes and I have never seen it.
 
herding_cats said:
Thanks for this very interesting thread. I am a freak when it comes to connections, bonding, lug torque, all of it.

Here's where I sit on the issue:

When I bond large service conductors, I fully remove the Allen bolt and grease it with noalox. I do this because of the galling of aluminum, and it sticks and won't torque correctly.
I use it on every bond, copper to aluminum, copper to copper clad, EVERYTHING #8 and above. I don't use it on grounded connections, typically.
I also install ferrules, copper foil or swedge my own fittings from M type copper tubing.
I am CERTAIN that spreading the stranded wire under the torque of the Allen bolt is bad.

I could go on and on, but I think its the best practice method. It won't hurt TO use it, and I have seen corroded alum to copper bonds that heat up, streak with rainbow color, start to fail. Weirdly it's been on neutrals more than hot legs, so it seems...

Having wired dozens of restaurants, I have a practice of DOUBLING the service connection points on freezers. For example, a 75 cu. ft. freestanding freezer might come with a 240v plug, cord. I remove the cord, replace with #10 SOJ, replace receptacles with 50A rated range plug, socket. I've seen 4 different fires from OEM plugs, sockets.
Click to expand...
Since when does a mechanical engineer wire restaurants?
 
herding_cats said:
Thanks for this very interesting thread. I am a freak when it comes to connections, bonding, lug torque, all of it.

Here's where I sit on the issue:

When I bond large service conductors, I fully remove the Allen bolt and grease it with noalox. I do this because of the galling of aluminum, and it sticks and won't torque correctly.
I use it on every bond, copper to aluminum, copper to copper clad, EVERYTHING #8 and above. I don't use it on grounded connections, typically.
I also install ferrules, copper foil or swedge my own fittings from M type copper tubing.
I am CERTAIN that spreading the stranded wire under the torque of the Allen bolt is bad.

I could go on and on, but I think its the best practice method. It won't hurt TO use it, and I have seen corroded alum to copper bonds that heat up, streak with rainbow color, start to fail. Weirdly it's been on neutrals more than hot legs, so it seems...

Having wired dozens of restaurants, I have a practice of DOUBLING the service connection points on freezers. For example, a 75 cu. ft. freestanding freezer might come with a 240v plug, cord. I remove the cord, replace with #10 SOJ, replace receptacles with 50A rated range plug, socket. I've seen 4 different fires from OEM plugs, sockets.
Click to expand...
If using a 3-wire range receptacle I would say it is a code violation because it is a dual voltage non grounding device, rated 50A 125/250V.
 
There very different opinions on the topic. Responses that keep this thread on focused on the topic are greatly appreciated.

Please see the attached memo from Southwire;
"Southwire does not require the use of pin adapters or anti-oxidant compound when using our AlumaFlex® compact aluminum alloy (AA-8000 Series) conductors or our 1350 Alloy (UtilityGrade) Aluminum Conductors."

The Southwire Memo does go on to say;
" Although the following installation steps are not required, they are considered good practice:
• The surface of the conductor should be wire-brushed to break any aluminum oxide barrier leaving a clean surface for the connection.
• Use an anti-oxidant compound to prevent future oxidation at the termination."

Additional notes in their email with the attachment.

"The above recommendations are based on Southwire’s general interpretations of the latest codes and standards including NFPA 70® National Electrical Code® Edition 2023 and the applicable UL standards.
It is the sole responsibility of a licensed electrician and the discretion of the local AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) to approve all the wire and cable products and installation methods to be used for a specific application at different locations.
There might be local regulations or unique environmental factors that might limit the use of a specific product. Additionally, the same type of product manufactured by different vendors might also have an impact on the applications.
As a result, our answers to this request above are for reference only, and we strongly advise the end users to consult with a licensed electrician and the local AHJ before purchasing and installing any Southwire products."

NECA/AA 104-2012 Recommended Practice for Installing Aluminum Building Wire and Cable;
"Section 3.2 Joint Compound
Conductor Termination Compounds (commonly known as joint compounds or oxide inhibitors) are used on splice and termination connections of aluminum, copper-clad aluminum, and copper conductors where needed to retard oxidation at conductor/connector interface. Joint compounds are produced in many varieties, all with special properties appropriate for their intended use. Compound should be compatible with conductor insulation and components used for splicing and terminating. These compounds do not have a deleterious effect on the conductor metal, insulation or equipment when used in accordance with the manufacturer’s installation instructions.

A Listed joint compound is applied to the bare conductor after it has been wire brushed. A coating of joint compound remains on the surface
of the conductors, preventing moisture or other contaminants from contacting the connection area.

NOTE: Some joint compounds contain coarse grit or metallic particles, which make them unsuitable for flat-bar connections."

NECA/AA 104-2012 Recommended Practice for Installing Aluminum Building Wire and Cable is a copyright document so I can't post online here but you can download from here; https://www.techstreet.com/standards/neca-104-2012?product_id=1844529

Most licensed electricians I know, either;
1. Don't use Noalox because it's not required, or
2. Add Noalox to the conductors or Noalox to everything (Copper conductors, Al Terminals, you name it) "because it can't hurt" but none of them will "wire-brush to break any aluminum oxide barrier".

I have yet to work with a licensed electrician who "wire-brushes" and then adds Noalox.

I really hoped to get some closure on this topic and move forward as a licensed electrician however it seems that debate will continue.

Southwire's response "sole responsibility of a licensed electrician and the discretion of the local AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) to approve all the wire and cable products and installation methods to be used for a specific application at different locations" is going to have to stick me.

Thank you everyone.
 

Attachments

  • Southwire AL Installation & Maintenance.pdf
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1983Rich said:
Most licensed electricians I know, either;
1. Don't use Noalox because it's not required, or
2. Add Noalox to the conductors or Noalox to everything (Copper conductors, Al Terminals, you name it) "because it can't hurt" but none of them will "wire-brush to break any aluminum oxide barrier".
Click to expand...
Opinions vary. IMO it's not required because in most cases it is not needed. If a sparky likes cheap insurance against the possibility of it helping with the connection no one can fault him for that. Many of us use installation practices that far exceed the minimum code requirements. You can choose or not choose to do the same.
 
1983Rich said:
I really hoped to get some closure on this topic and move forward as a licensed electrician however it seems that debate will continue.
Click to expand...
I don't know what debate you are talking about. The fact of the matter is that it is not required but if you want to use it you can.

I actually use it on my boat for salt water oxidation on my bow and stern light connectors.
 
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