Great Noalox Debate - final resolution

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"The use of an antioxidant , such as Noalox, on Panelboard Main Lugs is not required.
The lugs are UL listed for use with copper or aluminum conductors without the use of ANY anti-oxidation supplement. The use of an antioxidant is not prohibited, but assurances must be made that the brand used, is a NON PETROLEUM based product. If a petroleum based product is used and comes in contact with the insulating base, the insulating base material can be degraded. "

This is a Square D statement.
 
Little Bill said:
Since when does a mechanical engineer wire restaurants?
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Since I was hired by a restaurant development group for over 10 years and specified many different aspects. No desk jockey here. I also build motorcycle race engines. Should I not be doing that too according to your standards?
 
norcal said:
If using a 3-wire range receptacle I would say it is a code violation because it is a dual voltage non grounding device, rated 50A 125/250V.
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Use a 3 or 4 wire connection. The point is make it beefy, with large contact surfaces. OEM stuff is always too small, gets hot, melts, arcs, etc.
 
herding_cats said:
Since I was hired by a restaurant development group for over 10 years and specified many different aspects. No desk jockey here. I also build motorcycle race engines. Should I not be doing that too according to your standards?
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I didn't say anything about standards. You have to have an electrical license to get a permit to wire restaurants. I've never seen an ME that was allowed to pull electrical permits, or do the wiring for commercial establishments.
 
I have both. And a master mechanical.
I graduated from college with an ME degree, went to work as an electrician got licensed after about 7 years as master electrician, got my master mechanical and at 42 years old went back and got my masters in ME.

Worked for a restaurant development group for about 12 years, got into federal contracting and began designing HVAC for server data rooms on AFB / military.

Currently contracted at a manufacturing plant that designs batteries for nuclear submarines.
There is nothing I cannot design/build or contract.
 
herding_cats said:
I have both. And a master mechanical.
I graduated from college with an ME degree, went to work as an electrician got licensed after about 7 years as master electrician, got my master mechanical and at 42 years old went back and got my masters in ME.

Worked for a restaurant development group for about 12 years, got into federal contracting and began designing HVAC for server data rooms on AFB / military.

Currently contracted at a manufacturing plant that designs batteries for nuclear submarines.
There is nothing I cannot design/build or contract.
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That's good!
You might want to add electrician to your profile to keep questions down since this is an electrical Forum.
 
How many of you *dont* use de-ox (noalox) on AL wire? I was taught that way so I do.
 
I discussed this with an inspector today whom thought I did not use any on a 4/0 AL service lug. I use the clear ILSCO brand and don't strip off any more than I have to, so there is no extra exposed wire.
He was used to seeing gray goo. I said well it aint in the code anyway, he said oxygen is a deteriorating agent to aluminum wire unless it has DEOX on it and cited 110.11.
 
gene6 said:
I discussed this with an inspector today whom thought I did not use any on a 4/0 AL service lug. I use the clear ILSCO brand and don't strip off any more than I have to, so there is no extra exposed wire.
He was used to seeing gray goo. I said well it aint in the code anyway, he said oxygen is a deteriorating agent to aluminum wire unless it has DEOX on it and cited 110.11.
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No idea how he is getting a requirement to use deox from 110.11.
 
Don't you know that electrical inspectors get instantanious knowledge of all the code the minute they are hired?
Well I guess most people don't know that. It's an inside thing. They are never wrong.....
 
herding_cats said:
I could go on and on, but I think its the best practice method. It won't hurt TO use it, and I have seen corroded alum to copper bonds that heat up, streak with rainbow color, start to fail. Weirdly it's been on neutrals more than hot legs, so it seems...
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This makes a lot of sense. In an unbalanced three phase system with light loads where it's normal for one phase to have near zero current like with residential or a small business, neutral will normally be one of the conductors with more current. In a single phase (or "open wye" on the service end) 208Y/120 3W service, e.g. some MDUs or network services in some cities, neutral will ALWAYS have the current of the most heavily loaded phase on it.
 
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gene6 said:
I discussed this with an inspector today whom thought I did not use any on a 4/0 AL service lug. I use the clear ILSCO brand and don't strip off any more than I have to, so there is no extra exposed wire.
He was used to seeing gray goo. I said well it aint in the code anyway, he said oxygen is a deteriorating agent to aluminum wire unless it has DEOX on it and cited 110.11.
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That was a requirement before the change requiring the use of AA8000 alloy for the AL conductor, 310.3(B)(1). Did a search on "link" with multiple docs with multiple variations of topic, finding no reference requiring noalox. (Sorry)
Will use when doing panel replacement and the AL is of unknown age or alloy. (safe than sorry)
 
Fred B said:
That only is stating "if it is used it must be suitable for the application used". Nothing therein is requiring its use.
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Would you agree 110.14 is the Red Tag when product listing is missing during inspection, as described with that clear ILSCO brand in #31
 
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electrofelon said:
No idea how he is getting a requirement to use deox from 110.11.
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AHJ clearly pointed to 110.11 "Deteriorating Agents" and something about the definition of identified and what he considers a "deteriorating effect" on AL wire if inhibitor is not applied, I thought it was noteworthy he was quick with the code like he had been challenged on it before.

Not a hill I am going to die on, If I am working for you I'll do it the way you pay me to.
Just adding my definitive experience to this definitive thread.
 
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