Great Noalox Debate - final resolution

[Fred B]

AHJ clearly pointed to 110.11 "Deteriorating Agents" and something about the definition of identified and what he considers a "deteriorating effect" on AL wire if inhibitor is not applied, I thought it was noteworthy he was quick with the code like he had been challenged on it before.

Not a hill I am going to die on, If I am working for you I'll do it the way you pay me to.
Just adding my definitive experience to this definitive thread.

that term generally is pointing toward something like chlorine

from a NECA reference:
110.11 Deteriorating Agents. Unless identified for use in the operating environment, no conductors or equipment shall be located in damp or wet locations; where exposed to gases, fumes, vapors, liquids, or other agents that have a deteriorating effect on the conductors or equipment; or where exposed to excessive temperatures.

 

[rambojoe]

that term generally is pointing toward something like chlorine

from a NECA reference:
110.11 Deteriorating Agents. Unless identified for use in the operating environment, no conductors or equipment shall be located in damp or wet locations; where exposed to gases, fumes, vapors, liquids, or other agents that have a deteriorating effect on the conductors or equipment; or where exposed to excessive temperatures.

Or coastal regions with alot of fog....

 

[gene6]

that term generally is pointing toward something like chlorine

from a NECA reference:
110.11 Deteriorating Agents. Unless identified for use in the operating environment, no conductors or equipment shall be located in damp or wet locations; where exposed to gases, fumes, vapors, liquids, or other agents that have a deteriorating effect on the conductors or equipment; or where exposed to excessive temperatures.

Interesting thanks for posting more context, he mentioned boron, went into how aluminum is made and oxygen definitely not chlorine,
I just smile and nod because I had used clear Ilsco, which I could not get in till he stopped talking all about 110.11.
Have a great weekend, god bless.

 

[macmikeman]

The only times I have ever seen the power companies provide copper to building services is way way back old services had two insulated hot legs and a solid #4 bare copper supplying the neutral to some very old houses with underground services in rigid steel conduit. I still bump into them sometimes in my travels.

 

[BarryO]

Or coastal regions with alot of fog....

Back in the day a coastal PUD nearby where I used to live "strongly encouraged" Cu Service Entrance conductors. They still want you to use stainless steel meter bases.

 

[garbo]

Old guy here and still use Noalox for all Aluminum service cable conductors and especially on thin short screws on 100 amp circuit breakers especially if they are outdoors or in damp basements. Several times I have came across such flimsy screws that had seized themselves. Have split the slot in halve in these screws attempting to loosening them. I always had a dedicated steel brushes to only use to force the Noalox in between aluminum strands and kept it in a heavy zippered freezer bag to keep them clean.Even if it's not a NEC requirement best practice is just to spend the few pennies to use Naolox. Have the same thoughts on anti short bushings. Use them every where. My very talented master electrician that I appreciated under would tell me when in doubt go the extra mile

 

[Dennis Alwon]

any moons ago I contacted Southwire and their engineer said it is not required however, they recommend noalox on all wires-- copper and aluminum.

 

[infinity]

Yes it's a recommendation not a requirement. For years meter pans had the terminals filled with some sort of antioxidant. The last one I installed had nothing. IMO if it were required it should come pre-installed in the terminal.

This often comes up in home inspection reports because some HI organizations teach that it's required but it is not.

 

[JJWalecka]

Thanks for this very interesting thread. I am a freak when it comes to connections, bonding, lug torque, all of it.

Here's where I sit on the issue:

When I bond large service conductors, I fully remove the Allen bolt and grease it with noalox. I do this because of the galling of aluminum, and it sticks and won't torque correctly.
I use it on every bond, copper to aluminum, copper to copper clad, EVERYTHING #8 and above. I don't use it on grounded connections, typically.
I also install ferrules, copper foil or swedge my own fittings from M type copper tubing.
I am CERTAIN that spreading the stranded wire under the torque of the Allen bolt is bad.

I could go on and on, but I think its the best practice method. It won't hurt TO use it, and I have seen corroded alum to copper bonds that heat up, streak with rainbow color, start to fail. Weirdly it's been on neutrals more than hot legs, so it seems...

Having wired dozens of restaurants, I have a practice of DOUBLING the service connection points on freezers. For example, a 75 cu. ft. freestanding freezer might come with a 240v plug, cord. I remove the cord, replace with #10 SOJ, replace receptacles with 50A rated range plug, socket. I've seen 4 different fires from OEM plugs, sockets.

"also install ferrules, copper foil or swedge my own fittings from M type copper tubing" can you ecplain the theory and show photos of why you make your own ferrules thank you

 

[LarryFine]

One time I watched a POCO guy make up the line-side meter terminals. He applied a dot of no-ox about the size of a green pea to the back of the terminal, behind the wire. That was it.

 

[Frank DuVal]

The only times I have ever seen the power companies provide copper to building services is way way back old services had two insulated hot legs and a solid #4 bare copper supplying the neutral to some very old houses with underground services in rigid steel conduit.

Around here VEPCO ran copper to most every house with the popular overhead 60 amp service! Three #6 copper (or #8?) solids on separate insulators. Probably was also copper solids on the rarer 30 amp 120 volt services for houses with gas appliances.

 

[Mr. Serious]

One time I watched a POCO guy make up the line-side meter terminals. He applied a dot of no-ox about the size of a green pea to the back of the terminal, behind the wire. That was it.

The one time I watched power company guys do it, they opened the top of the noalox container and stuck the whole end of the wire down into the container, before inserting it into the terminal.

 

[LarryFine]

The one time I watched power company guys do it, they opened the top of the noalox container and stuck the whole end of the wire down into the container, before inserting it into the terminal.

That's basically what I do, and I squeeze the bottle so the compound is at the neck of the bottle.

 

[roger]

When I was using noalox, I would squeeze some into my hand and rub both hands together then rub my face to get that part out of the way.

 

[rambojoe]

I didnt always use noalox, but when i did, i got some on rogers brand new yellow handled strippers...

 

[macmikeman]

The one time I watched power company guys do it, they opened the top of the noalox container and stuck the whole end of the wire down into the container, before inserting it into the terminal.

HECO dabs the meter prongs with it before pushing in the meter every time.

 

[Frank DuVal]

Makes sense, I don't think any meter on HECO is without salt!

 

[gene6]

that term generally is pointing toward something like chlorine

from a NECA reference:
110.11 Deteriorating Agents. Unless identified for use in the operating environment, no conductors or equipment shall be located in damp or wet locations; where exposed to gases, fumes, vapors, liquids, or other agents that have a deteriorating effect on the conductors or equipment; or where exposed to excessive temperatures.

If you'd be referring to National Electrical Contractors Association that NECA puts it in their standards. EE or Union specifications can pull in NECA standards.
NECA/AA 104-2000 3.1.2(c) requires it for AL terminations. (post 16)

 

[gene6]

Most licensed electricians I know, either;
1. Don't use Noalox because it's not required, or
2. Add Noalox to the conductors or Noalox to everything (Copper conductors, Al Terminals, you name it) "because it can't hurt" but none of them will "wire-brush to break any aluminum oxide barrier".

I have yet to work with a licensed electrician who "wire-brushes" and then adds Noalox.

I really hoped to get some closure on this topic and move forward as a licensed electrician however it seems that debate will continue.

It says your a Master Electrician and NABCEP certified which I understand to be a optional solar cert verifying you adhere to 'best practices'. I know nothing of NABCEP but I bet if you did read those best practices it requires NECA standards or something like it that will require following manufacturer recommendations such as oxide inhibitor.

 

[ptonsparky]

Has this thread been decisive yet?

No, I haven't.