Ground rods GEC connected (daisy-chained) to water line GEC?

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sw_ross

Senior Member
Location
NoDak
Have an old building that I'm upgrading the service to.
Service disco will be on back of building in alley.
Water line comes up in basement at front of building.
I need to drive the 2 ground rods somewhere in basement of building, as there is no real estate outside of building perimeter.
If I drive them somewhere in the back of building (basement), I'd have to attach them to the #4 from water line with and irreversible crimp...
Or, I could drive them at front of building (basement), and run the #6 to the waterline (grounding electrode).

Any thoughts about "daisy chaining" the grounding electrode conductors like this?
And would I be able to attach the #6 directly to the water line with a pipe clamp right next to the pipe clamp that attaches the #4 GEC that goes back through the basement the the service in alley?

Thanks!
 

jumper

Senior Member
If you attach the #6 to the #4 you do not have to use irreversible crimps. #4 has to be continuous to water line.

#6 can be attached to water line using clamp also. Needs to be in the 5 foot area where water line enters building. 250.68.
 

sw_ross

Senior Member
Location
NoDak
I thought, based on 250.64(C), that the GEC for the ground rounds would have to be "continuous" back to service...

The fact that the #6 is "splicing" onto the #4 would have to be by "irreversible compression type Connecter"?

That's the way Ive always interpreted it, I could be wrong ?
 
Yes. Basically, if you read the wording carefully, you will see that the GEC only has to be continuous to the first electrode. In fact, I would have to double check myself, but I believe the conductors from the first electrode to additional electrodes,are bonding jumpers NOT GEC's
 

jumper

Senior Member
Yes. Basically, if you read the wording carefully, you will see that the GEC only has to be continuous to the first electrode. In fact, I would have to double check myself, but I believe the conductors from the first electrode to additional electrodes,are bonding jumpers NOT GEC's

Yep.

412ecm11fig13.jpg
 

sw_ross

Senior Member
Location
NoDak
Helpful diagrams! I have those grounding books, should've looked there for info after trying to interpret the code book!

So I can split bolt my "bonding" conductor for the ground rods onto the GEC that goes to the water line grounding electrode? Easy enough!

Thanks!
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
If you attach the #6 to the #4 you do not have to use irreversible crimps. #4 has to be continuous to water line.

#6 can be attached to water line using clamp also. Needs to be in the 5 foot area where water line enters building. 250.68.
If I'm not mistaken, the #4 has to be within the 5', but the #6 can connect to the water pipe anywhere.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
If I'm not mistaken, the #4 has to be within the 5', but the #6 can connect to the water pipe anywhere.

Not sure about that. What happens when sections of the pipe gets changed to pex? IMO the jumper must be from the electrode itself or at least should be.
 
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david

Senior Member
Location
Pennsylvania
If you attach the #6 to the #4 you do not have to use irreversible crimps. #4 has to be continuous to water line.

#6 can be attached to water line using clamp also. Needs to be in the 5 foot area where water line enters building. 250.68.

I thought, based on 250.64(C), that the GEC for the ground rounds would have to be "continuous" back to service...


The fact that the #6 is "splicing" onto the #4 would have to be by "irreversible compression type Connecter"?

That's the way Ive always interpreted it, I could be wrong ?

I did not understand this to be about multiple service disconnects, has there been a code change allowing you to tap the # 4 grounding electrode conductor with a # 6 grounding electrode conductor?


If I'm not mistaken, the #4 has to be within the 5', but the #6 can connect to the water pipe anywhere.

Since you are building a grounding electrode system this is not true, the bonding of the ground rods with a #6 has to be from the portion of the water pipe that is defined as a grounding electrode
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Since you are building a grounding electrode system this is not true, the bonding of the ground rods with a #6 has to be from the portion of the water pipe that is defined as a grounding electrode
I see, said the blind man. :cool:
 

jumper

Senior Member
I did not understand this to be about multiple service disconnects, has there been a code change allowing you to tap the # 4 grounding electrode conductor with a # 6 grounding electrode conductor?

No, you are correct. I mixed up the two. The connection would have to be at the water pipe according to 250.68.

Electrically I am not sure it really makes a difference though, but as written....nope.
 

jumper

Senior Member
Since you are building a grounding electrode system this is not true, the bonding of the ground rods with a #6 has to be from the portion of the water pipe that is defined as a grounding electrode

Careful with the terminology. That five feet of pipe is not defined as a “grounding electrode”.

Interior metal water piping located not more than 1.52 m (5 ft) from the point of entrance to the building shall be permitted to be used as a conductor to interconnect elec- trodes that are part of the grounding electrode system.
 

david

Senior Member
Location
Pennsylvania
Careful with the terminology. That five feet of pipe is not defined as a “grounding electrode”.

Interior metal water piping located not more than 1.52 m (5 ft) from the point of entrance to the building shall be permitted to be used as a conductor to interconnect elec- trodes that are part of the grounding electrode system.

Point taken
 
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