ground screw termination

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Does anyone know if there are any "official" guidelines for terminating wires on a ground screw in a j-box. I went to the Ideal site and they had nothing that I could find.

I have a situation where there are two ring terminals terminated under one 10-32 ground screw and I'm getting told this is a violation. I disagree but can't find anything to back me up.

If anyone knows where I can find some information or would like to debate my interpretation I would appreciate it.

Thanks
 
You might find a listing under the manufacturers info about the number of wires but it would seem to me that 2 ring connectors (I assume these are crimps) are smaller than one wire. 250.8 states that there must be 2 threads engaged so if that is capable of being complied with then I would think you are good.
 
Does anyone know if there are any "official" guidelines for terminating wires on a ground screw in a j-box. I went to the Ideal site and they had nothing that I could find.

I have a situation where there are two ring terminals terminated under one 10-32 ground screw and I'm getting told this is a violation. I disagree but can't find anything to back me up.

If anyone knows where I can find some information or would like to debate my interpretation I would appreciate it.

Thanks

Sounds like this is the problem:

250.148 Continuity and Attachment of Equipment Grounding Conductors to Boxes.
Where circuit conductors are spliced within a box, or terminated on equipment within or supported by a box, any equipment grounding conductor(s) associated with those circuit conductors shall be connected within the box or to the box with devices suitable for the use in accordance with 250.148(A) through (E).
Exception: The equipment grounding conductor permitted in 250.146(D) shall not be required to be connected to the other equipment grounding conductors or to the box.
(A) Connections. Connections and splices shall be made in accordance with 110.14(B) except that insulation shall not be required.
(B) Grounding Continuity. The arrangement of grounding connections shall be such that the disconnection or the removal of a receptacle, luminaire, or other device fed from the box does not interfere with or interrupt the grounding continuity
 
The situation is thus: there are (2) 12/2 NM cables entering the box. The EGC's are spliced together with one of those wirenuts with the premanufactured tails that terminate in a ring terminal (Ideal's Term-A-Nut). There is another wire from the grounding terminal of the receptacle that also terminates in a ring terminal. Both of these rings are terminated under the ground screw in the 4 square box.

Hope this clarifies the install.
 
I see no problem but there may be a listing issue. Certainly there are enough threads so I would not loose sleep on this. I had not seen these devices before.

Xg9x6Kx0wf7WQU8Ch4jiJAbEwpX3LUX3V_vfAGpKFtHwPifVghQARy2XdVOYvOnumdHUQhWUmnV8Nbvfq77_152GzVOvRdeKEDIu1KHarVBM2DShjaMFLoMqfdBanJBhXuYsQrml3ulzTYoVbJHRyHmdFofHc4YurblNwoJs8W6wyZ8Ycjh8Coj34_XHi_v3D3aLtJj1OoOCf_aRZawl2O8U00-p-IXQmbG83oG37t-tlLmfWTvoYhs69PFVEp-SdjYuyklVSEgGhhqnB_EcIXvxclYhaw41d5fBrh_SdU4bXyiu92O9f3M
 
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The situation is thus: there are (2) 12/2 NM cables entering the box. The EGC's are spliced together with one of those wirenuts with the premanufactured tails that terminate in a ring terminal (Ideal's Term-A-Nut). There is another wire from the grounding terminal of the receptacle that also terminates in a ring terminal. Both of these rings are terminated under the ground screw in the 4 square box.

Hope this clarifies the install.

Sorry I missed the boat on this one. You're terminating under the ground screw to a metal box not the device (which is what I originally thought). As Dennis said it should not be a problem
 
I agree with both Rob and Dennis.

Had both EGCs landed on a device it would be a violation, with both EGCs landing in the box it is fine.



Perhaps the person is incorrectly remembering the rule Rob posted.
 
I'm definitely on the side of it being a safe and compliant installation but in this Bizarro Superman world in which I'm living I'm looking for some kind of documentation to help back my position. I know it's probably going to be tough to find anything specifically saying this is OK but I was hoping to find something that would help me out.

Thanks for the input.
 
I'm definitely on the side of it being a safe and compliant installation but in this Bizarro Superman world in which I'm living I'm looking for some kind of documentation to help back my position. I know it's probably going to be tough to find anything specifically saying this is OK but I was hoping to find something that would help me out.

Thanks for the input.

You shouldn't have to prove this is OK because there won't be any documentation to prove it.
The other person should give you a code reference or documentation to prove it is a violation.
 
I see no problem but there may be a listing issue. Certainly there are enough threads so I would not loose sleep on this. I had not seen these devices before.

Xg9x6Kx0wf7WQU8Ch4jiJAbEwpX3LUX3V_vfAGpKFtHwPifVghQARy2XdVOYvOnumdHUQhWUmnV8Nbvfq77_152GzVOvRdeKEDIu1KHarVBM2DShjaMFLoMqfdBanJBhXuYsQrml3ulzTYoVbJHRyHmdFofHc4YurblNwoJs8W6wyZ8Ycjh8Coj34_XHi_v3D3aLtJj1OoOCf_aRZawl2O8U00-p-IXQmbG83oG37t-tlLmfWTvoYhs69PFVEp-SdjYuyklVSEgGhhqnB_EcIXvxclYhaw41d5fBrh_SdU4bXyiu92O9f3M

They also have one with a longer wire/connector.

ground wire.jpg

I also saw some that didn't come with the wire nut. I thought someone thought of a way to get rid of their scrap wire without taking it to a salvage yard!:cool:
 
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I agree with both Rob and Dennis.

Had both EGCs landed on a device it would be a violation, with both EGCs landing in the box it is fine.



Perhaps the person is incorrectly remembering the rule Rob posted.

It seems to me that with the wire nut shown removing the device would not affect the grounding continuity at all. Loosen the ground screw on the device and slip the wire nut off and the rest of the ground circuit is unaffected.
 
It seems to me that with the wire nut shown removing the device would not affect the grounding continuity at all. Loosen the ground screw on the device and slip the wire nut off and the rest of the ground circuit is unaffected.

True but not the situation we are taking about.
 
Does anyone know if there are any "official" guidelines for terminating wires on a ground screw in a j-box. I went to the Ideal site and they had nothing that I could find.

I have a situation where there are two ring terminals terminated under one 10-32 ground screw and I'm getting told this is a violation. I disagree but can't find anything to back me up.

If anyone knows where I can find some information or would like to debate my interpretation I would appreciate it.

Thanks

I think what you are asking is if the installation would comply with 110.14(A). Particularly the last sentence:Terminals for more than one conductor and terminals used to connect aluminum shall be so identified.

The question is are you putting two conductors under the screw terminal or are you putting two devices (ring terminals) under the screw terminal and what are any installation instructions for the ring terminal?

I say you are not putting two conductors under the screw terminal, but are putting two devices (the ring terminals) under the screw terminal. Whether or not they are designed for this purpose I don't know, but I have seen it done and have done it myself many times - for more than just connecting an EGC to a box.

A similar question may be can you place more than one mechanical or compression lug on the same stud or bolt? I don't know but have seen it done.

I will add: I often run into motors that come with ring terminals on the input leads. There is no way to connect these without more than one lead per bolt, unless you want to install some kind of terminal strip which there is no room for.
 
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The situation is thus: there are (2) 12/2 NM cables entering the box. The EGC's are spliced together with one of those wirenuts with the premanufactured tails that terminate in a ring terminal (Ideal's Term-A-Nut). There is another wire from the grounding terminal of the receptacle that also terminates in a ring terminal. Both of these rings are terminated under the ground screw in the 4 square box.
I don't see a problem with your termination, and agree that the inspector should be able to back up his position by citing the code that you've allegedly violated. However, I also understand the reality of such situations: that it's often not worth getting into a "pissin' match" with the inspector, particularly over something that is small and easily changed. Often we need to save our battles for the big issues that are difficult/costly to change.

So why not simply take the EGC pigtail from the receptacle and add it to the existing "Term-A-Nut" that is bonding the EGC's of the two 12/2 NM cables?
 
"that it's often not worth getting into a "pissin' match" with the inspector, particularly over something that is small and easily changed. Often we need to save our battles for the big issues that are difficult/costly to change"

The biggest issue I'm facing is the unique environment I'm working in. I need to do whatever I can to get this sorted now or this will set a precedent throughout the country. Once something like this gets established it becomes policy, not left to the discretion of the inspector.

Again, thanks for all of the responses.
 
I think what you are asking is if the installation would comply with 110.14(A). Particularly the last sentence:Terminals for more than one conductor and terminals used to connect aluminum shall be so identified.

A ground screw is not a terminal.
 
A ground screw is not a terminal.

From definition of the word terminal from dictionary.com:
Electricity . a. the mechanical device by means of which an electric connection to an apparatus is established.

b. the point of current entry to, or point of current departure from, any conducting component in an electric circuit.

Can you "terminate" a conductor with it?
 
I think you are stretching it but that is your choice not mine.

What is your definition of terminal then?

How is the ground screw any different than a termination screw on a receptacle? Other than it is usually green?

250.126 uses the term terminal to describe a screw used for this purpose.
 
In my opinion the terminal is the device that connectes directly to the conductor. While screws can be terminals, the screws of a wiring device, I don't see this screw as a terminal, but if you were using it with solid wire it would become a terminal. Screws or bolts are often used to connect a terminal to a bus or other device, but those screws or bolts are not terminals.
 
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