Grounding a mast

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mjf said:
Correct.....BTW, I did explain that in a follow-up post!
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Yes, you did.

And FWIW, this is actually an NEC requirement for outside branch circuits and feeders [225.19(D)(1)]. Seems odd the NEC requirement for service conductors is more lax...
 
kwired said:
I don't get that one at all. What is the increased risk?




Back to Op, if the mast is not continuous to the meter socket, it is not a raceway, it is simply a metal tubular support. If you were to put up strut channel or angle iron as a support would you still have same question?

The rules for raceway type masts are just there because the raceway happens to be supporting the service drop. If something else is supporting the service drop so what. If it is metallic it may or may not be required to be bonded to the grounded conductor, but is certainly not a bad idea to do so.

If clearance is needed over a street (which I think someone brought up) that very well may be an issue for the POCO more so than for the owner to provide a high mast at the house, that doesn't necessarily mean POCO can't charge the customer for providing a solution though.

Does not matter that funding for this may come from some third party that is there to help. Those organizations that do provide this kind of help in my experiences are not looking for "cheap" either. They usually take into consideration what is actually needed, what is outdated, worn out, changes in codes and standards over the years, etc. They also may consider what will be better investment over time instead of just putting on the cheapest band-aid they can find.
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I agree, most third party payers are more interested in the job being done by someone trust worthy and price is not an issue at all.
 
Smart $ said:
During a fire, using the window as egress and the SEC as support in doing so.
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A raceway could be used as support in similar circumstance also, I still don't see why SE cable would be significantly more dangerous.

If you had a fire every day and had to egress out that window each time - maybe then it would be worth worrying about.

Besides if the cable is more than three feet away just what am I supposed to grab a hold of?:)

Service drops need to be higher at the house than at the street or alley as well as within easy reach of windows, balconies, etc., that way you can use them as a zip line in an emergency egress situation:cool:
 
kwired said:
A raceway could be used as support in similar circumstance also, I still don't see why SE cable would be significantly more dangerous.

If you had a fire every day and had to egress out that window each time - maybe then it would be worth worrying about.
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I'm not going to defend such a requirement wholeheartedly either... but we're talking during a fire which can impact both structural and insulation integrity... enough said...???

Besides if the cable is more than three feet away just what am I supposed to grab a hold of?:)

Service drops need to be higher at the house than at the street or alley as well as within easy reach of windows, balconies, etc., that way you can use them as a zip line in an emergency egress situation:cool:
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:lol: LOL :lol:
 
Heck, nothing wrong with that cable. Just staple the slack and let it rip! Looks fine compared to a lot of the garbage I see every day!:D
 
Smart $ said:
I'm not going to defend such a requirement wholeheartedly either... but we're talking during a fire which can impact both structural and insulation integrity... enough said...???


:lol: LOL :lol:
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If the cable has been that hot already when you are trying to egress through that window you will not be going through that window, unless it is last resort and you are just going to make a run toward the window then jump and hope for the best. But chances are at that point you have been overcome by fumes and are unconscious. This is all assuming you have already ruled out escaping through the interior door to the room you are in.
 
kwired said:
If the cable has been that hot already when you are trying to egress through that window you will not be going through that window, unless it is last resort and you are just going to make a run toward the window then jump and hope for the best. But chances are at that point you have been overcome by fumes and are unconscious. This is all assuming you have already ruled out escaping through the interior door to the room you are in.
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What about a rescuer?

Rationalize all you want. Others will continue to have varied opinions.
 
Smart $ said:
What about a rescuer?

Rationalize all you want. Others will continue to have varied opinions.
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I will, and I agree.

If I needed to grab hold of something, I would like to think an SE cable will support me better than a 2 pair telephone cable ran in same location would:happyyes:
 
I dont know about you all but if I'm inside a burning house and my windows stuck and I see a fireman or "Rescuer" heading toward my window in an attempt to help me, and he hesitates at the last minute , makes a sharp turn away from the window pulls out his side cutters to cut the seal and remove the meter before he finishes his heroic act,,,,,, he better hope I dont survive my last ditch effort of jumping out the window.
 
jap said:
I dont know about you all but if I'm inside a burning house and my windows stuck and I see a fireman or "Rescuer" heading toward my window in an attempt to help me, and he hesitates at the last minute , makes a sharp turn away from the window pulls out his side cutters to cut the seal and remove the meter before he finishes his heroic act,,,,,, he better hope I dont survive my last ditch effort of jumping out the window.
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That's when the big trampoline comes out.

img_6768-01.jpg
 
John120/240 said:
Hopefully the fire fighter removed the meter ....
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If the firefighter isn't trained in the fact that pulling meter does not disconnect the overhead service drop to the structure, I wonder what other actions may be inappropriately employed.
 
jim dungar said:
If the firefighter isn't trained in the fact that pulling meter does not disconnect the overhead service drop to the structure, I wonder what other actions may be inappropriately employed.
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In my area the firefighters do not touch the POCO's property. They either go in with power on, or if deemed unsafe to do so, the POCO comes out and usually cuts the drop at the pole.

Some areas the firefighters have poles and hooks to open the switch on the poles.

I know many firefighters and they are trained well. To make an assumption that they may not be based on pure unmitigated speculation is not fair to those people. People, BTW, that are doing a job that most others could not, would not or should not do under any circumstances.
 
jim dungar said:
It seems a lot of electricians from the south, think that everyone likes to or is required to have disconnects outside with the meter.
I guess they don't realize how common outdoor sockets and indoor disconnects really are, nor how many northern residential installations use cable instead of pipes.
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Meters outside and disconnects inside are very common here in the south. We just take pride in what the finished product looks like. We put the toilets in the house and the pipes in the wall too.:):) If In lived up north I would never run Cable exposed on the outside even if it is legal.Thankfully Florida POCOs make us use conduit.
 
jim dungar said:
If the firefighter isn't trained in the fact that pulling meter does not disconnect the overhead service drop to the structure, I wonder what other actions may be inappropriately employed.
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Now what are you saying?

Most fireman and even volunteer fireman are trained and very aware of electrical hazards in thier line of work.

With that being said.

I am not a fireman but my brother and my dad are and if you were in a burning house and couldnt get out, they'd most likely drive the firetruck through a block wall and carry you out if they had to , to save your life, while you were yelling

"Hey guys I'm not sure but I dont think what you all just did was an appropriate action".
 
jap said:
Now what are you saying?
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Why? Do you have problems with comprehension of my posts?:?

I was specifically addressing someone else's (John 120/240) post. I posited a trained firefighter would know that pulling a meter does not disconnect the overhead feed to a structure. If the firefighter did not know that basic concept of electrical feeds to structures, it might be reasonable to question some of their other knowledge.
 
No, I think we're comprehending your posts very clearly.

That's why your starting to see the responses from me and some others questioning your assumptions.
 
Tell you what,

Next time you see a fireman,Preferrably one from Florida, Arizona, California or one of them other "south" states that you mentioned earlier that seem to think things that you think they think,,,,,,,,

Go up and say, Hey I'm just wondering, did you know that if you pull an electrical meter that you havent actually disconnected the service conductors to the line side of the meter base?

And then if they answer, No I didnt know that,

Say, well then can you tell me about all of the other stuff that you should know but dont?

And then post back on what happened after that if you can
 
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