Grounding a mast

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jap said:
Per your quote,
"It seems a lot of electricians from the south, think that everyone likes to or is required to have disconnects outside with the meter.
I guess they don't realize how common outdoor sockets and indoor disconnects really are, nor how many northern residential installations use cable instead of pipes. "


Because as far as I'm concerned,

I dont think everyone likes to have a disconnect, nor, do i think everyone is required to have a disconnect outside with the meter.
and yes I do realize how common outdoor sockets and indoor disconnects really are.

The only thing I'm not sure of is how many northern residential installations use cabe instead of pipes but that really does'nt matter much to me.

What rubbed me wrong was I didnt feel it was up to you to express what I think or dont think, since I seem to fall into the territory of "electricians in the south" your talking about, when actually I dont think that way at all.
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FWIW, my house has SE cable on it. :rant: (I didn't do it) So do many of the older houses in my subdivision. Newer (60s and up) get pipe. On the east (Detroit) side they use cable on new installations.

I have no idea why, but on new residential installations on my (west) side of the state (Michigan) we NEVER use SEC, but on the east side they do it all the time. The entire state is under the same set of rules. It's just a local thing. But I noticed that the trend is that DTE served areas have SEC, and Consumers Energy customers use pipe only. So it may actually be a POCO thing.
 
I'm wondering if we could relocate my original post to another location and rename this thread North vs South:p
 
Nothing wrong with SE on the side of a house, if your worried about damage, a hit hard enough to damage the cable will probably leave a hole in the side of the house anyway. Most installations usually are not where protection from severe damage is needed. At least the meter is outside, just got back from Brooklyn,NY where they had the electric meter, the gas meter, and a diesel tank inside on a basement wall side by side! Best I could figure out, this was installed in 1975.
 
If this is posted twice I apologize but,

If I'm understanding you correctly then your assuming that the majority of residential electricians in
Arizona, California, and Florida,

Think that a disconnect is "liked" and or required to be by the meter and that's why they think it should be installed?

and that they dont realize how common an outdoor socket is with an inside disconnect?

That's a whole lot of electricians and I may be wrong but I bet a majority of them would beg to differ on what they think or dont think.
 
goldstar said:
I'm wondering if we could relocate my original post to another location and rename this thread North vs South:p
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Be sure to capitolize that correctly so we'll know exactly what your talking about. :)
 
jap said:
...
If I'm understanding you correctly then your assuming that the majority of residential electricians in
Arizona, California, and Florida,.....
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I am not making any assumptions. I said "it seems" and "a lot".

I could have said, "after reading +10yrs of posts on this forum, I get the impression" and "quite a few, but not all"; but honestly, that just strikes me as being a bit too wordy.
 
That response may have been a lot more "wordy" but a lot less blunt and much more acceptable.
 
jim dungar said:
In non-metropolitan areas of Illinois, Michigan, Minnesota, and Wisconsin (the areas I am licensed in) it is rare to find a '1-2 family' residence with an outside disconnect. I would not be surprised if 'outside disconnects' comprised <5% of new R-1,2 construction.
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True. This is because we have basements and locate the panels in the basement. We have basements because back in the day the cold states had giant coal furnaces in the basement. But now we just like (and expect) basements.

In Michigan the only time I see a outside disconnect is because an addtion or other alteration made it necessary.
 
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Why does an addition or alteration make an outside disconnect necessary?
 
jap said:
Why does an addition or alteration make an outside disconnect necessary?
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Usually a local requirement, just like if you change xx percent of the wiring, then you might have to upgrade everything, some jurisdictions look at a service change, even though its only a replacement to meet that criteria.
 
hillbilly1 said:
Usually a local requirement, just like if you change xx percent of the wiring, then you might have to upgrade everything, some jurisdictions look at a service change, even though its only a replacement to meet that criteria.
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Not really. I meant the addition or alteration made it so the meter can has to be relocated. Typically the panel stays put, but can't be the main anymore because of the "nearest point of entry" thing. The solution is to put a disco outside and convert the old main panel into a sub panel.
 
jes25 said:
Not really. I meant the addition or alteration made it so the meter can has to be relocated. Typically the panel stays put, but can't be the main anymore because of the "nearest point of entry" thing. The solution is to put a disco outside and convert the old main panel into a sub panel.
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Yes, on older installations that do not meet the present code requirements on max distance, but some localities require it even if the panel and meter are back to back. Usually fire code for a firemans disconnect. The OP did not mention whether this installation was back to back or not.
 
hillbilly1 said:
Yes, on older installations that do not meet the present code requirements on max distance, but some localities require it even if the panel and meter are back to back. Usually fire code for a firemans disconnect. The OP did not mention whether this installation was back to back or not.
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Meter and breaker panel are back to back.
 
mjf said:
[/COLOR]My POCO prohibits SEU within 3' of windows. Suggest checking with yours.[/SIZE]
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I don't get that one at all. What is the increased risk?




Back to Op, if the mast is not continuous to the meter socket, it is not a raceway, it is simply a metal tubular support. If you were to put up strut channel or angle iron as a support would you still have same question?

The rules for raceway type masts are just there because the raceway happens to be supporting the service drop. If something else is supporting the service drop so what. If it is metallic it may or may not be required to be bonded to the grounded conductor, but is certainly not a bad idea to do so.

If clearance is needed over a street (which I think someone brought up) that very well may be an issue for the POCO more so than for the owner to provide a high mast at the house, that doesn't necessarily mean POCO can't charge the customer for providing a solution though.

Does not matter that funding for this may come from some third party that is there to help. Those organizations that do provide this kind of help in my experiences are not looking for "cheap" either. They usually take into consideration what is actually needed, what is outdated, worn out, changes in codes and standards over the years, etc. They also may consider what will be better investment over time instead of just putting on the cheapest band-aid they can find.
 
jim dungar said:
It seems a lot of electricians from the south, think that everyone likes to or is required to have disconnects outside with the meter.
I guess they don't realize how common outdoor sockets and indoor disconnects really are, nor how many northern residential installations use cable instead of pipes.
Click to expand...

Just about all the residential services here have main breaker panels in the house,with just a meter socket outside.

That looks like all he needs is a 10' RMC mast and a new meter socket.
 
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