Grounding a swagged chandelier

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dhducati

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HO wants a new chandelier converted to plugin. Most packaged swag kits I've seen include a two-wire cord and plug, no ECG. The chandelier has exposed metal and a bare #18 EGC together with the two-wire lamp cord. (2005) 410.17(A) says that "exposed metal parts shall be grounded or insulated from ground and other conducting surfaces...". 410.20 says that fixtures "with exposed metal parts shall be provided with a means for connecting an ECG" (which it is). I'm thinking that 410.17(A), with the metal parts insulated from wiring is what allows the two-wire swag kits. Am I reading this correctly?

I'd be more comfortable grounding it, but all of the three-conductor cords I've seen are too large to fit down the center pipe. Thanks for any feedback.
 
Why does she want the chandelier converted to a plug-in?:confused:

By modifying the chandelier you would probably change to UL rating. This might come back to haunt you if the fixture later has problems.
 
BackInTheHabit said:
Why does she want the chandelier converted to a plug-in?:confused:

By modifying the chandelier you would probably change to UL rating. This might come back to haunt you if the fixture later has problems.
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It is replacing an existing swagged chandelier, which is plugged into a well-located switched recep. The ceiling is tongue and grove pine, with no access above, and she doesn't want her nice ceiling cut into. Yes, the UL rating change is a concern.

Thanks for the welcome! I'm finding some interesting reading on these forums.
 
BryanMD said:
Most new fixtures with swag chain usually have a bare ground wire threaded in the chain along with the lampcord. I assume this meets a UL standard.

Use some of that.
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He mentioned the bare ground in his OP. It's the ground and original items of the fixture that meet the UL listing/rating. It was the modifying of the fixture itself that would normally change the UL listing/rating.

I don't think the ground can be exposed and there is no way that I know to hide the ground and install a grounded plug.
 
BackInTheHabit said:
He mentioned the bare ground in his OP. It's the ground and original items of the fixture that meet the UL listing/rating. It was the modifying of the fixture itself that would normally change the UL listing/rating.

I don't think the ground can be exposed and there is no way that I know to hide the ground and install a grounded plug.
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Mea Culpa, didn't read all that carefully enough.

I don't think there is a compliant way to achieve what the customer is asking for, at least not at the outlet. You might be able to put a 3 pin disconnect (like those used for ballasts? or a trailer hitch?) inside the shroud at the top of the fixture.

Not as convienent, but just how frequently are they needing to take this thing down in any case.
 
seems like you are converting the chandelier from a fixture to a portable lamp (or whatever the proper term would be). I dont know about you guys but I own many lamps that are constructed of metal and have a 2 wire cord.
 
We use swagged chandeliers as tent lighting. They are metal fixtures with 2 wire cord and an exposed ground. We put a grounded plug on the end (with the bare ground to the ground pin).

While we fall under the temporary lighting section of the code, when these are installed permanently, the ground wire is exposed. While I am sure I am the NEC novice on this forum, why would putting a grounded plug on the 2 wire and ground change the UL listing when the exposed ground to a box is acceptable?

Tim.
 
tcahall said:
We use swagged chandeliers as tent lighting. They are metal fixtures with 2 wire cord and an exposed ground. We put a grounded plug on the end (with the bare ground to the ground pin).

While we fall under the temporary lighting section of the code, when these are installed permanently, the ground wire is exposed. While I am sure I am the NEC novice on this forum, why would putting a grounded plug on the 2 wire and ground change the UL listing when the exposed ground to a box is acceptable?

Tim.
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First of all, Welcome to the forum.:grin:

When you modify a fixture that is UL rated, that fixture no longer complies as a UL listed fixture.

http://www.ul.com/regulators/modification.cfm
 
BackInTheHabit said:
First of all, Welcome to the forum.:grin:

When you modify a fixture that is UL rated, that fixture no longer complies as a UL listed fixture.

http://www.ul.com/regulators/modification.cfm
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when hanging a changelier, you typically end up adjusting the length of the chain and wire. that seems like a modification, how is it dealt with? or is it ok since its in accordance with the mfgr's instructions?
 
wireguru said:
when hanging a changelier, you typically end up adjusting the length of the chain and wire. that seems like a modification, how is it dealt with? or is it ok since its in accordance with the mfgr's instructions?
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I understand your point as I have done that myself. The chain is typically packaged in a seperate bag, while the wire itself is attached to the fixture. The chains themselves are not part of the UL listing I believe.

My point is the modifiction of the fixture itself which includes the wire. I would check with the manufacturer and inquire with them. There are swags fixtures that have plug cords on them.
 
I convinced the HO to have a ceiling box installed so that the fixture could be hard wired.

I did talk to a tech at a local lamp repair shop, and he said that he often converted chandeliers to plug-in. He always used ungrounded plugs, and removed any existing ground wire. He pointed out some dual purpose fixtures, the directions for which say to use the ground wire when installing as a fixture, and cut it off when using as a portable. I imagine that they are listed differently than for regular fixtures.
 
dhducati said:
HO wants a new chandelier converted to plugin. Most packaged swag kits I've seen include a two-wire cord and plug, no ECG. The chandelier has exposed metal and a bare #18 EGC together with the two-wire lamp cord. (2005) 410.17(A) says that "exposed metal parts shall be grounded or insulated from ground and other conducting surfaces...". 410.20 says that fixtures "with exposed metal parts shall be provided with a means for connecting an ECG" (which it is). I'm thinking that 410.17(A), with the metal parts insulated from wiring is what allows the two-wire swag kits. Am I reading this correctly?

I'd be more comfortable grounding it, but all of the three-conductor cords I've seen are too large to fit down the center pipe. Thanks for any feedback.
Click to expand...
There is no mention of a swag relocation from the outlet. If that is the case, why the plug-in if the original fixture is ceiling hung? Or is it swagged on a ceiling hook to a switched receptacle. Maybe I am not seeing what is being done. The 18 EGC with zip cord and chain comes standard for a wall canopy. Why plug? Just fish up to a high wall cut-in above a switched outlet. rbj
 
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gndrod said:
There is no mention of a swag relocation from the outlet. If that is the case, why the plug-in if the original fixture is ceiling hung? Or is it swagged on a ceiling hook to a switched receptacle. Maybe I am not seeing what is being done. The 18 EGC with zip cord and chain comes standard for a wall canopy. Why plug? Just fish up to a high wall cut-in above a switched outlet. rbj
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The original was a plug-in. It didn't occur to me to attach the canopy to a wall box -- thanks for the suggestion. I still would have needed to re-wire the chandelier given the distance to the wall above the wall recep, but it addresses the grounding.
 
can a peas

can a peas

dhducati said:
The original was a plug-in. It didn't occur to me to attach the canopy to a wall box -- thanks for the suggestion. I still would have needed to re-wire the chandelier given the distance to the wall above the wall recep, but it addresses the grounding.
Click to expand...

yer welcome. rbj
 
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