grounding conductor size

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: grounding conductor size

Bennie,

A grounding conductor is the one that connects the service to the earth.

Then you support my proposal to change "equipment grounding conductor" to equipment bonding conductor"? Your statement is one of the major reasons that the term EGC should be changed. The word grounding should be reserved for the conductor that has the function of connecting the electrical system to earth.
Don

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: grounding conductor size

jro,

Ok so tell us how do you ground the 1800 amp service, and what is the size of the EGC, ...

You do not use equipment grounding conductors on a service. Equipment grounding conductors start on the load side of the main bonding jumper.
Don

[ September 19, 2003, 08:22 AM: Message edited by: don_resqcapt19 ]

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: grounding conductor size

Ken,
The maximum code required size of a grounding electrode conductor is 3/0 copper. See Table 250.66.
Don

 

[mclain]

Re: grounding conductor size

After following this topic I am going to outline my understanding of the GEC and why the NEC requires the size cabling it does. And the logic behind it as I see it. Full size GEC per table 250.66 to building steel and water pipe. This is because the GEC is connected to the grounded conductor (neutral). If a phase conductor shorts out to building steel or the water pipe, ground fault current can flow back to the grounded conductor byway of the GEC. #6 to grounding electrode and supplemental electrodes or #4 to rebar incased in concrete. The smaller wire is used because the current flow to the grounding electrodes will always be much less that to the grounded conductor (neutral) based upon Ohms law. If you don?t agree let me know.

 

[bennie]

Re: grounding conductor size

The size of the water pipe ground electrode conductor is not for ground fault purposes. A ground fault on the supply side would require a conductor melt down to clear the fault.

The size is based on the highest single phase load current, likely to be imposed, with the loss of the service neutral conductor.

During a storm, should all service conductors except one, be broken. The single phase load on the remaining conductor will be applied to the ground electrode (water pipe) conductor. This can be a substantial amount that will overheat a small conductor.

The other scenario is; Your neighbor loses all but one active conductor. His neutral current will appear on your ground electrode system.

 

[bennie]

Re: grounding conductor size

Don, I respect your interest and work on making this subject more user friendly. I agree that the terms used in article 250 need a lot of work.

I believe in calling a component by its proper name, based on its application. The proper name will be a noun. The application will be an adjective.

All electrical conductors, in systems connected to the earth, are in two categories. One is the active line side, and the other is the ground side.

The active side remains in the same status until it reaches the load. The ground side starts at the load and is complete back to the source. This, is of course describing a circuit with a ground/neutral.

I do not want the definition of "bond" to change.
A bond conductor can be on both the active line side and the ground/neutral side.

All conductors that are solidly connected to the earth are ground conductors. A bond conductor is not always a ground conductor. A ground conductor is always a bond conductor.

There is only three different applications for a ground conductor. One is to the ground electrode conductor, one is the load carrying ground conductor, and the last is the fault clearing ground conductor.

Conductor is the noun, the application is the descriptive adjective. This is acceptable English grammar. Grounded, and grounding, are not proper words.

 

[hurk27]

Re: grounding conductor size

Grounded is past-tense (already been done) Grounding is present (being done this moment)
This does sound goofy.

I guess we will forever be grounding. but if grounded it we will be done with it.

I think I corn fused myself LOL :roll:

 

[Ed MacLaren]

Re: grounding conductor size

Grounded, and grounding, are not proper words.

This reminds me of the "newspeak" language imposed on the citizens in George Orwell's novel, Nineteen Eighty-four.

Would you recomend getting rid of all words ending in "ed" and "ing"

We could start with -

aggravate, aggravated, aggravating
exasperate, exasperated, exasperating

and how about these -

wire, wired, wiring
insulate, insulated, insulating
isolate, isolated, isolating

Ed

 

[Guest]

Re: grounding conductor size

How about:
bore, bored, boring

Actually, this is excite, excited, exciting.

This thread is interest, interested, interesting.

[ September 20, 2003, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: awwt ]

 

[karl riley]

Re: grounding conductor size

Bennie, you have this thing about nouns are nouns, verbs are verbs, adjectives are adjectives.
But in the English language, we use one for the other all the time.
We bomb Iraq. Bomb is a noun. It is short for "we dropped a bomb on Iraq".
We connect the hot to the brass terminal. Oops! "hot" is an adjective.
She pleasures me (a charming old phrase), but pleasure is a noun.
In show biz, they talk about Raymond Burr always playing the heavy. But heavy is an adjective.

All languages are for the purpose of communication. They are not issued tickets for departing from original usage. Usage is always changing, which is why dictionaries have to keep issuing new editions.

Why try to declare that your dictionary is the only legitimate one? Brittle things break.

Karl

 

[tom baker]

Re: grounding conductor size

My favorite is the use of "Microwave", a noun.
I am going to microwave dinner.
Thats the same as "I am going to oven dinner."

 

[Guest]

Re: grounding conductor size

When I took Spanish classes I was offered Castillian Spanish or I was offered Conversational Spanish. One was right. One was real. Which one is more useful? I chose Castillian so I would understand the basis of the language-- then I took conversational so I wouldn't sound like a Nimrod.

PS: I have little idea what a Nimrod is, so don't bag me on that one!

 

[bennie]

Re: grounding conductor size

We in the US call it a washer. In the UK it is called a space taker.

Which term describes the object better?

Does anyone know how the term washer was ever created to describe a space taker?

 

[Guest]

Re: grounding conductor size

OK Bennie, you sucked me in again: I had a Professor from the UK and I was always confused by his accent-- his was very unusual even for Britain. We asked him if those things that covered his legs were pants or pawnts. His reply: "trousers!".

../Wayne C.

[ September 20, 2003, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: awwt ]

 

[charlie b]

Re: grounding conductor size

The first time I heard the word ?coffee? used as a verb (a waitress said to me, ?I?ll be back in a moment to coffee you?), I nearly split a gut trying not to laugh out loud while she was still in earshot.