Grounding electrode at exterior light poles

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Xptpcrewx said:
Thanks. Wondering if there is something more official than an opinion because the definition for structure in the NEC specifically states, “That which is built or constructed, other than equipment.”.

Concrete/footing/rebar is definitely something built or constructed. This is not like anything described in the definition of Equipment which states, “A general term, including fittings, devices, appliances, luminaries, apparatus, machinery, AND THE LIKE used as a part of, or in connection with, an electrical installation.”.

Applying this definition would seem to suggest the base to which the light pole will be mounted is in fact a structure and not equipment.
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What if the light fixture support pole is a simple wooden item shoved into the ground, like a utility pole?
Does a concrete base serve any other purpose than being a part of the electrical installation?
 
texie said:
I'll grant you that the definition is some what ambiguous. But to use your logic that would mean that equipment such as a genset or a condensing unit, etc. attached to a concrete pad/foundation located outside of a building would need a GES.
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Correct. I’m not saying it’s practical, economical, makes a difference or even my preference to install a GE. Just trying to understand the requirement based on the code language as written. To me the definition is clear and not ambiguous. Also, as you know, the NEC isn’t a design standard, so perhaps good design might require a GE or some other equivalent system for equipment pads; i.e. concrete encased electrode.
 
jim dungar said:
What if the light fixture support pole is a simple wooden item shoved into the ground, like a utility pole?
Does a concrete base serve any other purpose than being a part of the electrical installation?
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I don’t think purpose has anything to do with it. It’s basically either equipment or a structure. You might ask what about cases where equipment/structure is not easily distinguishable. I think the appropriate response is to use the most restrictive rule.
 
Xptpcrewx said:
Concrete/footing/rebar is definitely something built or constructed.

Applying this definition would seem to suggest the base to which the light pole will be mounted is in fact a structure and not equipment.
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Suppose I built a pair of pillars with lights atop at the end of my driveway. Electrodes needed?
 
Xptpcrewx said:
Can you clarify why the structure the pole is mounted to is not considered a “structure” for the purposes of requiring a grounding electrode?
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The NEC exempts lighting poles from having a disconnect, no disconnect, no GES. Exemption is in the Luminaire Poles section.
I am camping and dont have access to NEC.
 
To muddy the waters- if the only thing on the pole is traffic signals, which are supplied by their own controller, then the installation becomes more like motor/drive (in the sense that the branch circuit stops at the signal controller, same as it stops at a VFD).

You can mess this up by adding a receptacle to the light pole.
 
tom baker said:
The NEC exempts lighting poles from having a disconnect, no disconnect, no GES. Exemption is in rhe Luminaire Poles section.
I am camping and dont have access.
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Fine but my question is about structures.


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zbang said:
To muddy the waters- if the only thing on the pole is traffic signals, which are supplied by their own controller, then the installation becomes more like motor/drive (in the sense that the branch circuit stops at the signal controller, same as it stops at a VFD).

You can mess this up by adding a receptacle to the light pole.
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Wouldn’t this be outside the scope of the NEC? Public traffic signals would fall under the NESC.
 
tom baker said:
The NEC exempts lighting poles from having a disconnect, no disconnect, no GES. Exemption is in rhe Luminaire Poles section.
I am camping and dont have access.
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False. Utility owned light poles are exempt. Privately owned light poles would need to adhere to regulations set by the NEC, and would require overcurrent protection of some kind.
 
Xptpcrewx said:
So why ask?
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Because you seem to feel that a light pole qualifies as a structure that even a single circuit triggers an electrode requirement.

I am asking whether the same would apply to a brick or concrete driveway post with a light.
 
LarryFine said:
Because you seem to feel that a light pole qualifies as a structure that even a single circuit triggers an electrode requirement.

I am asking whether the same would apply to a brick or concrete driveway post with a light.
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I never said a light pole qualifies as a structure. I was asking why the concrete base with rebar (or any other structure which is built/constructed) is not considered a structure.

Reading through the responses, it seems like people are too hung up about having to install a GE rather than just letting the definition sink in.
 
Xptpcrewx said:
...
Reading through the responses, it seems like people are too hung up about having to install a GE rather than just letting the definition sink in.
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It doesn't matter if a concrete base is a structure or not as the requirement for a grounding electrode is only triggered where the structure is supplied by a feeder or a branch circuit. A concrete base is not supplied by a feeder or a branch circuit.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
It doesn't matter if a concrete base is a structure or not as the requirement for a grounding electrode is only triggered where the structure is supplied by a feeder or a branch circuit. A concrete base is not supplied by a feeder or a branch circuit.
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Can you clarify what it means to have a structure “supplied by” a feeder or branch circuit? In what case would you ever have to supply a structure if it didn’t have equipment in or on it?
 
Xptpcrewx said:
Can you clarify what it means to have a structure “supplied by” a feeder or branch circuit? In what case would you ever have to supply a structure if it didn’t have equipment in or on it?
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The structure itself must have a need for electric power. A concrete base, even if a structure, never has a need for electric power.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
The structure itself must have a need for electric power. A concrete base, even if a structure, never has a need for electric power.
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This seems iffy. I can’t think of a case where a structure itself would ever require power. Only the equipment within or on it requires power. Also, why trigger a GE requirement in the first place unless it was the structure itself that warrants the benefit of a GE?
 
Xptpcrewx said:
This seems iffy. I can’t think of a case where a structure itself would ever require power. Only the equipment within or on it requires power. Also, why trigger a GE requirement in the first place unless it was the structure itself that warrants the benefit of a GE?
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It is never the structure that benefits from the grounding electrode system, only the electrical equipment on or in the structure.

So you would require a GE at the outside AC unit sitting on a concrete pad?

You can put as many electrodes in as you want, but in reality, they don't serve much purpose on an under 1000 volt electrical system.
 
If you had a shed and you install electrical to the shed then that shed becomes a structure for electrical purposes.

Here is the 2020 NEC new definition

Structure.

That which is built or constructed, other than equipment.
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The concrete base that the light sets on is not supplied with power, the pole itself is but that is exempt by definition. As stated before a/c units are not structures etc
 
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