grounding of service

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infinity said:
I disagree. If the building is surrounded by earth is a ground rod required? A CEE that isn't 1/2" or larger rebar is a made electrode. Absence of the 1/2" or larger rebar removes the requirement to use the footing. It becomes optional. The code allow me to use whatever made electrode that I choose to supplement the water pipe. If I choose I could use 20' of Cu in the footing but it is not required.
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Hmmm interesting.:eek:
 
3736, Getting back to the two houses with the UFER stub-up, or was that a GEC stub-up? I would bond the loose GEC if that is the case...regardless of the GES present. You mentioned that residential inspection is not required in VT, did I read that correctly? Are permits still required? How does POCO interact with non-code installs? They must have a control on the electrical. Could you elaborate a little? rbj, Seattle
 
boboelectric said:
Why does'nt everyone agree to head off surges ect. at the meter socket instead of the main panel?Why bring surges, lightning hits further into the structure than is necessary?I mean bond neutral at meter socket.
Bob O.84,Pa.
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Here where I live in Iowa that was the only way that the electric company would let us do it(to the meter). Now in the past year it's a NO,No.
Jim
 
gndrod said:
3736, Getting back to the two houses with the UFER stub-up, or was that a GEC stub-up? I would bond the loose GEC if that is the case...regardless of the GES present. You mentioned that residential inspection is not required in VT, did I read that correctly? Are permits still required? How does POCO interact with non-code installs? They must have a control on the electrical. Could you elaborate a little? rbj, Seattle
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Gndrod: In Vermont owner occupied single family are not required to be inspected nor licensed, duplexes have to be inspected and also you do not need to be licensed, every thing else needs to be inspected and licensed, towns have building inspectors that will look for basic stuff like arc-fault breakers, smoke detectors and gfci protection at the proper location but thats only in the bigger city's or towns which isn't many. The poco does check for proper wiring to the main panel and for grounding but thats about it, from my experience they don't know the code, In the past 2 months I had one of there techs tell me that because I had 4 - 100 amp panels in a small apt house including a house meter (load calculation came up to 160 amps including for added provisions) that my service conductors had to be good for 400 amps. I told him the service was based on the calculated load and not the 4 over current devices added together. He looked at me funny but went along with it, After I was told he later discussed it with a state inspector before he was satisfied. Another one told me as I discussed on another thread that I couldn't come out of a meter socket installed on the garage and go underground 50' and then through the foundation to the main panel in the basement with out a main at the socket, I didn't argue to much at the time and said that I may put the panel in the garage and then I said or a disconnect and install a sub panel in the basement, he said I could put the panel in the garage but not just a disconnect because the fireman wouldn't know where to shut it off, :confused: , I told him I would talk to the owner and get back to him. (This gave me time to think about what had just happened), they know how to bug lines together on the pole but they don't know the code. The tech came back to me a few days later and said he talked to his engineers and they agreed with him that I couldn't run underground without a disconnect, most people on the thread I started agreed I could run underground from the meter without a disconnect as did the state inspector.:p Only in Vermont:rolleyes:
 
I'm new at this so please bear with me. I have a home owner that wants to install a 4oo amp meter base and two 200 amp disconnects approximately 30 foot from the house on a structure built of treated wood. One 200 amp disconnect is for the house and the other disconnect is for a future ag building. I thought the meter base and disconnect had to be mounted on the structure nearest the entry point of the service entrance conductors. Am I wrong?
 
Angela Gabby said:
I thought the meter base and disconnect had to be mounted on the structure nearest the entry point of the service entrance conductors. Am I wrong?
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Yes, in this case. The "nearest the entry point of the service entrance conductors" is relative to being farther within the structure, not as compared to being outside or not on the structure. Plus, it refers to the disconnect, not the meter.
 
Well 3736, I certailnly feel the pain from where you are coming from. Generally POCO abides by its own rules in according to the area they service. At least POCO is there to cover all bets in their jurisdiction, even though they do not follow the local AHJ. In CA there is PG&E that covers most areas in N.CA, whereas in WA you'll find the utility POCO's abound within Cities like Seattle that have Puget Power, Potelco Division, and Seattle City Light within one county. All have their set of requirements that are unique. Seemingly Building departments have no say in what the utilities require in interfacing configurations. The Fire Marshall has a more consistant handle on standardization than any other authority I believe. rbj, Seattle
 
Angela,
I thought the meter base and disconnect had to be mounted on the structure nearest the entry point of the service entrance conductors. Am I wrong?
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In this case you have 2 structures. The structure where the meter and disconnect are installed and the house. Disconnects are required in both locations. The one at the house can be outside or inside nearest the point of entrance of the feeder conductors. The service conductors stop at the disconnet that is at the meter.
Don
 
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Our utility allowed us to bond the GEC and the grounded service conductor at the meter base or in the service disconnect, whichever is more practical.

I think that the grounded service conductor serve as the grounding equipment conductor for the meter base. Like the case in the service equipment where the Grounded conductor serve as the grounding equipment conductor.
 
gndrod said:
enteng14, The POCO allows conditions the AHJ might not. Accessibility is a common issue in the meter base. :) rbj, Seattle
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Now i understand. Thank you gndrod. It always depends on the AHJ. But here in our country, the utility was more stringent than the AHJ. The AHJ did'nt work its job function (issue a electrical permit without first inspecting the electrical installation). :rolleyes:
 
enteng14, Doesn't the AHJ at least have an electrical plan review in conjunction with the building projects? BTW, welcome to the MH forum.

Off topic- Where are you located in the Phillipines? DOes the AHJ delegate from a national level or local districts? Have you ever heard of ART BELL? He does a night (make that day) time radio talk show on the weekends out of Manila now. If you believe in Extraterrestials, Art is the guy to listen to. :) rbj, Seattle
 
gndrod said:
enteng14, Doesn't the AHJ at least have an electrical plan review in conjunction with the building projects? BTW, welcome to the MH forum.

Off topic- Where are you located in the Phillipines? DOes the AHJ delegate from a national level or local districts? Have you ever heard of ART BELL? He does a night (make that day) time radio talk show on the weekends out of Manila now. If you believe in Extraterrestials, Art is the guy to listen to. :) rbj, Seattle
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It was delegated to the local districts. There are some instances that there is already a certificate of final electrical inspection prior to electrical installation. I'm located at Manila and working at the local utility company. Thank you for welcoming me in this forum. I believe that i can gain further knowledge about electrical code and practices. Only the higher applied load was being inspected by the local districts. Most residential application was being taken for granted the electrical installation which resulted to fire accidents and almost all the time the electrical installation was pointed as the source of fire. :(
 
Hi enteng14,
What are some of the most common causes of residential fire related incidents. I am curious as to what structures materials are used such as framing, roofing, interior finish and most of all the wiring type (ie. romex?) for residential. Thank You. rbj, Seattle
 
GEC vs. EGC

GEC vs. EGC

iwire said:
I can't answer that anymore than I can figure out why I can't use one conductor as the EGC and GEC back to the service for an SDS in a wood building.
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In Memphis, TN, on a residential 200A single phase service, we are required to install an EGC #4 Cu from the Meter Neutral to the Load Center Ground Buss (which has a bond to the Neutral Buss).

It always seemed to me that this #4 'EGC' was parallel to the Service Neutral, from the meter to the panel.

Comments, please.
 
I would say that's an unavoidable side effect of the requirement to bond services (250.92), and having only the neutral with which to bond to. In one way or another, a metallic enclosure (or more accurately, two enclosures bonded seperately) are going to have to be a parallel path.

I've not heard of it causing a problem that I could recall.
 
glene77is said:
... It always seemed to me that this #4 'EGC' was parallel to the Service Neutral, from the meter to the panel ... Comments please ...
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It is.

Which might be one of the reasons why the POCO in this area prohibits connection of the premises grounding conductor directly to the meter base. (It's clearly spelled out in their "Blue Book")

Additionally, bonding of the meter enclosure is allowed ONLY if the meter base neutral is isolated from from the enclosure (and many aren't).
 
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georgestolz said:
I would say that's an unavoidable side effect of the requirement to bond services (250.92), and having only the neutral with which to bond to.
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George, not so.

We are not required to bond the service equipment twice.

In the situation glene77is describes the NEC does not require that number 4 AWG.

The NEC requires the meter socket to be bonded but that is accomplished with the grounded conductor, no additional conductor required. (NEC)

Personally I think the local amendment he is working under is for lack of a better word...stupid.
 
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