Grounding wire for 200A Service

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Al Dagys

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I know the water ground required to ground a 200A residential panel is #4AWG, but what size is required from the meter socket to the panel which must be connected to the grounding bushings? Is it #4 or #6???
 
They do require grounding bushings and a ground wire...I have failed inspections before. The debate is the size of the wire.
 
any raceway bonding on the line side of your service is based on 250.66, so the "amperage" is not actually the key, the wire size is..
 
Al Dagys said:
I know the water ground required to ground a 200A residential panel is #4AWG, but what size is required from the meter socket to the panel which must be connected to the grounding bushings? Is it #4 or #6???
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Are you connecting this bond wire to the meter pan and the panel or to just the bonding bushing in the panel?
 
Al Dagys said:
They do require grounding bushings and a ground wire.
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No, actually they don't. You can use a plastic nipple. You can also use a bonding locknut on one end if you don't have any knockout rings left.
 
The inspectors by me(just outside Chicago) want this wire to do the following: Connect to the nuetral bar inside, through the grounding bushing inside the panel, through the grounding bushing inside the meter socket, then to the lug on the meter socket itself. This wire must be unbroken. Then a seperate wire from the lug on the meter socket unbroken to the ground rod.
 
Al Dagys said:
The inspectors by me(just outside Chicago) want this wire to do the following: Connect to the nuetral bar inside, through the grounding bushing inside the panel, through the grounding bushing inside the meter socket, then to the lug on the meter socket itself. This wire must be unbroken. Then a seperate wire from the lug on the meter socket unbroken to the ground rod.
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That's a lot of work.
 
Parallel nuetral? Could you please explain what that is? These inspectors out here are insane. We used to have to only use 2" locknuts and a plastic bushing untill these "inspectors" went to some seminar and now they require metal grounding bushings and ground wires between the panel and the meter socket.
 
resistance said:
I agree 100%! Why are you telling me!?:grin:

I'm also on board with MD.
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I was saying not only is it a lot of work but it is also a parallel neutral..:grin:

Al Dagys said:
Parallel nuetral? Could you please explain what that is? These inspectors out here are insane. We used to have to only use 2" locknuts and a plastic bushing untill these "inspectors" went to some seminar and now they require metal grounding bushings and ground wires between the panel and the meter socket.
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I don't have my book but you cannot parallel conductor under 1/0. A parallel conductor is when you run 2 conductors instead of one to up the ampacity of the conductor. You cannot do that under 1/0 and you certainly can't do it with different size conductors.

What you have is two conductors the ground and the neutral originating and terminating in the same place.--
 
Al,

see NEC 250.6

Paralleled neutral (Basic answer)= An incorrect condition where the neutral to ground connection can present multiple paths for the neutral current to return to the supply source.
 
I do not understand. The nuetral bar is bonded to the panel with a bonding screw(which is required by inspectors). How is this a parallel nuetral? The nuetral and ground are the same at this point. We are required to use all conduit in residential buildings, does this change anything?
 
Al Dagys said:
I do not understand. The nuetral bar is bonded to the panel with a bonding screw(which is required by inspectors). How is this a parallel nuetral? The nuetral and ground are the same at this point. We are required to use all conduit in residential buildings, does this change anything?
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You, with the installation the inspectors are requireing, have 2 paths for the neutral - the neutral itself, and the bond wire. (3 with the conduit)
 
"Grounding Wire" is not a code term. I think you mean the grounding electrode conductor.
Its sized based on section 250.66.
The concept is that the GEC is sized based on the service entrance conductor size and type, as this is what determines the fault current and or lightning energy.
Section 250.66 has 3 parts, A,B, C and they modify table 250.66 for specific electrode types.
 
The neutral is bonded in the meter pan and in the panel. You've created a parallel current path by installing the bonding jumper between the panel neutral bus and the bonding bushing within the meter enclosure.

Although this happens unintentionally with metal raceways (and is permitted), installing a bonding jumper and intentionally creating a parallel correct path is a violation.
 
Al Dagys said:
They do require grounding bushings and a ground wire...I have failed inspections before. The debate is the size of the wire.
Click to expand...

If you are useing eccentric knock outs (and still have some rings left)
And useing metal conduit you would be required to have a grounding bushing on one side of the nipple or the other. Not one on each side.
If you are not useing eccentric knock outs you could use a grounding lock nut. Or a grounding bushing. But still only one side would be requires.

Mike Holt has an excellent video on eqipment grounding, grounded conductors, bonding jumpers, etc... Very informative and it will keep your attention..
 
And using a plastic connection between the two elimanates all the problems. I guess Chicago won't allow PVC fittings on the service.
 
if this is rigid conduit and we lost the neutral at the panel ..would the pipe not carry the current:-?

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.iaei.org/subscriber/magazine/98_f/simmons_fig9.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.iaei.org/subscriber/magazine/98_f/simmons.htm&h=302&w=450&sz=32&hl=en&start=23&um=1&tbnid=oMZeaF9pEqyyaM:&tbnh=85&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dparallel%2Bneutral%2Bpath%2Bat%2Bservice%2Bequipment%26start%3D18%26ndsp%3D18%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rls%3DGGLG,GGLG:2007-39,GGLG:en%26sa%3DN

simmons_fig9.gif
 
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