Grrr!!!! Argh!!!!! Aaahhh!!!!

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Re: Grrr!!!! Argh!!!!! Aaahhh!!!!

By Charlie: it looks like it is indeed impractical to locate the service head above the point of attachment
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You don't think the service riser could have been a little longer and the POA could have been a little lower? Look at the short span.jpg and it looks like the POA is as high as the POA at the pole which has to be about 18' I know it a AHJ's call but it looks clear? ;)
 
Re: Grrr!!!! Argh!!!!! Aaahhh!!!!

Wayne, the attachment height has to be high enough to clear the yard by 12 ft to meet the NESC. We don't know from the pictures what the back yard looks like or how high the point of attachment really is above grade. I will say that it does look like you are correct though. :D
 
Re: Grrr!!!! Argh!!!!! Aaahhh!!!!

I took the option of lowering the point of attachment so that I would not have to break the meter seals. For the short span and that the main commercial driveway is not underneath the span a 15 foot high POA will clear a 13 foot high semi that probably will never be there. Semi unloading actually gets done out on the street anyways.

The point of 230.54 is that there is supposed to be splice at the bottom of the drip loop to keep water from flowing INSIDE the wires. Concentric stranded conductor is a poor excuse for a water hose and compact stranded is an even poorer excuse. This predates the day that Pirelli came out with Strandseal(R) wire that contains a strand blocking compound.

The service conduit is allowed to extend above the flat roof. A reduction in clearance to zero feet is allowed if the service drop is attached at the edge of a roof.

Where a weatherhead MUST be below the point of attachment, such as when an underground service originates at utility overhead wiring, you are supposed to have a permanent splice at the bottom of the drip loop to prevent water from flowing inside of the wire. That is, you are supposed to have pigtails and a splice. Pigtails that are Pirelli Strandseal(R) would be even better. Even better yet would be auxiliary insulators for the pigtails to assure that there is a drip loop.

The only legitimate reason that I can see for having the weatherhead below the power source is when the weatherhead is on a utility company's pole which actually is a safety reason. For a weatherhead that is on a building there is always some way to build a service mast out of conduit.
 
Re: Grrr!!!! Argh!!!!! Aaahhh!!!!

Originally posted by charlie:
BTW, I can't imagine the P-Knob is held with just the vinyl siding. I am guessing that the screw has just messed up the siding a bit when it was installed. If just the siding were holding the insulator, it would come down. :D
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I`m with Charlie on this one a P.O.A. in siding alone holding triplex :D IMHO the drip loop is to stop infiltration of water into the meter base from the exterior of the conductor not from the interior of the insulation.We are talking about wire here not hoses ;)
 
Re: Grrr!!!! Argh!!!!! Aaahhh!!!!

For the short span and that the main commercial driveway is not underneath the span a 15 foot high POA will clear a 13 foot high semi that probably will never be there.
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If this service drop is going over a portion of a commercial driveway, the clearance is more that the 12 ft I mentioned for just a pedestrian accessible lawn area. It doesn't matter if it will ever be used or not, it is still there. :D
 
Re: Grrr!!!! Argh!!!!! Aaahhh!!!!

230.24(B) requires 18 ft but the NESC requires less. I don't have the NESC with me so I didn't guess. I know what the clearance is for pedestrian accessible areas. :D
 
Re: Grrr!!!! Argh!!!!! Aaahhh!!!!

Originally posted by mc5w:
Where a weatherhead MUST be below the point of attachment, such as when an underground service originates at utility overhead wiring, you are supposed to have a permanent splice at the bottom of the drip loop
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mc5w do you have a code reference for that statement?

This is after all an NEC forum.
 
Re: Grrr!!!! Argh!!!!! Aaahhh!!!!

Originally posted by charlie:
You know, you can't just use the part of the Code that you want to use and ignore the rest. The exception states, "Where it is impracticable to locate the service head above the point of attachment, the service head location shall be permitted not farther than 600 mm (24 in.) from the point of attachment."

From looking at the picture, it looks like it is indeed impractical to locate the service head above the point of attachment and that it is within 24 in. of the attachment. On top of all that, a nice drip loop has been formed. Would someone please tell me what the problem is with this installation? :D
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you go Charlie, most people I know try to pick a part of the code they like instead of using the book.
Again, YOU GO CHARLIE
 
Re: Grrr!!!! Argh!!!!! Aaahhh!!!!

The old point of attachment did pull out of the siding when I tried to onhook the drop and move it to the new POA. If you look closely at one of the photos you can see that the span is really short which means that the vinyl siding could have held up the POA.

Actually, I might have gotton the POA 16 feet up but I forget what the actual measurement is. There are some bridges on Interstate 77 in Cleveland that have only 13 feet 8 inches of clearance and the semis zoom right underneath.

The area between the span and the road is grass over what used to be a house foundation. To use the area for semis quite a bit of work would need to be done to keep the semi from sinking into the ground. For that amount of work somebody can bebuild the service while they are at it.
 
Re: Grrr!!!! Argh!!!!! Aaahhh!!!!

Bob,

NEC 230.54(F) sentence #2 requires a splice below the rainhead or gooseneck.

The explanatory material that I had read was that the splice is supposed to keep water form traveling INSIDE of stranded conductor.

One of the photos that I posted shows the new POA on the outside - it is one the ones showing the old POA pulling out fropm the building. It is kind of hard to see the new POA.

When I get the next disposable camera developed ( may be a few months ) I will get a better photo for you of the new POA plus an exact measurement from the ground.

By the way, Cleveland Public Power used a 1/2 inch copper clad steel communications ground rod and left about 6 inches sticking up out of the ground. The grounding electrode conductor is also not that well protected against mechanical damage.
 
Re: Grrr!!!! Argh!!!!! Aaahhh!!!!

230.54(F) Drip Loops. Drip loops shall be formed on individual conductors. To prevent the entrance of moisture, service-entrance conductors shall be connected to the service-drop conductors either (1) below the level of the service head or (2) below the level of the termination of the service-entrance cable sheath.
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Wow I never read that like that? :roll:

230.54G) Arranged That Water Will Not Enter Service Raceway or Equipment. Service-drop conductors and service-entrance conductors shall be arranged so that water will not enter service raceway or equipment.
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Re: Grrr!!!! Argh!!!!! Aaahhh!!!!

Not to change the subject but luke are you talking about progress open bulb shower trims :confused:
 
Re: Grrr!!!! Argh!!!!! Aaahhh!!!!

I have heard of old undergrounds failing due to moisture wicking into the conductor, from what I heard the break where water could enter was at one spot, and fifteen or twenty feet uphill the conductors had water inside the sheathing.

Of course, it's hearsay, but I believed the source at the time. It kinda makes sense if you think of the water wicking it's way through the conductor.
 
Re: Grrr!!!! Argh!!!!! Aaahhh!!!!

Yes, water will indeed go into the interstices of wire by means of capillary action. This is the same method that takes water and nutrients from the roots system to the tops of trees. :D
 
Re: Grrr!!!! Argh!!!!! Aaahhh!!!!

Originally posted by mc5w:
Bob,

NEC 230.54(F) sentence #2 requires a splice below the rainhead or gooseneck.
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mc5w, Cool now you have taught me something, a code reference always helps. :)
 
Re: Grrr!!!! Argh!!!!! Aaahhh!!!!

God also goes after services with a pressure washer from time to time. We also need to be packing weatherheads internally with duct seal or type 1 room temperature vulcanizing silicone sealant. Care would also be needed to pack the sealant around all the strands of any bare conductor. For SEU cable this is easy, for SER a little harder. For 7-strand bare copper no big deal but for 19-strand impossible because of opposite strand lays in each layer.

Last years hurricanes brought this to mind not to mention that all the cheap wiring supplies are STILL going down south.
 
Re: Grrr!!!! Argh!!!!! Aaahhh!!!!

Originally posted by allenwayne:
Not to change the subject but luke are you talking about progress open bulb shower trims :confused:
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Sorry for the delayed response, I was almost in your neck of the woods, Lake Mary and St. Augustine.
Roger, the fishin' was great.

Anyway, No, I'm not talking about the open bulb shower trims.
Here is an example: http://www.progresslighting.com/search.cfm?currPageNum=13&search=search&category=15&finish_id=&family_id=&minprice=0&maxprice=3000&sku=
 
Re: Grrr!!!! Argh!!!!! Aaahhh!!!!

?Dios mio!

?
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, por favor!
 
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