hard wired EV chargers

M

marmathsen

Senior Member
Location
Seattle, Wa ...ish
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Yes. I tell the owner that it needs to be compatible with a GFCI circuit and I look up the specs before I give them the ok to buy it.

Rob G - Seattle
 
T

Treg the electrician

Member
Location
lynnwood washington
Occupation
electrician
Yea Ive heard that you had to put the hard wired ones on a gfci breaker and ive been told otherwise . with the tesla chargers i am told that they have built in protection . ive got one coming up next week i will read up on it and see
 
W

wwhitney

Senior Member
Location
Berkeley, CA
Occupation
Retired
EVSEs often provide ground fault protection, but not at a level that qualifies as a GFCI. A GFCI has a 4-6 ma trip threshold; EVSEs usually implement CCID20 which has a 20 ma trip threshold. So for the purposes NEC GFCI requirements, EVSE do not provide GFCI protection.

Article 625 (EVSEs) has a requirement for GFCI protection of a receptacle installed for an EVSE, but that would not apply to a hardwired EVSE.

In the 2020 NEC and later, 210.8(F) requires GFCI protection for all equipment installed outdoors at a dwelling unit on a 50A or smaller branch circuit. So that covers any outdoor EVSE rated 50A or less.

In the 2023 NEC, 210.8(F) was expanded to also cover "Garages that have floors located at or below grade level" as well as "Accessory buildings." That will require GFCI protection in many (most?) garages, again for units rated 50A or less.

Cheers, Wayne
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
wwhitney said:
EVSEs often provide ground fault protection, but not at a level that qualifies as a GFCI. A GFCI has a 4-6 ma trip threshold; EVSEs usually implement CCID20 which has a 20 ma trip threshold. So for the purposes NEC GFCI requirements, EVSE do not provide GFCI protection.

Article 625 (EVSEs) has a requirement for GFCI protection of a receptacle installed for an EVSE, but that would not apply to a hardwired EVSE.

In the 2020 NEC and later, 210.8(F) requires GFCI protection for all equipment installed outdoors at a dwelling unit on a 50A or smaller branch circuit. So that covers any outdoor EVSE rated 50A or less.

In the 2023 NEC, 210.8(F) was expanded to also cover "Garages that have floors located at or below grade level" as well as "Accessory buildings." That will require GFCI protection in many (most?) garages, again for units rated 50A or less.

Cheers, Wayne
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That should be corrected in the 2026 code. The word "in" in that section should have been "at" as the rule is only intended to apply to outside locations and not locations within the listed structures. This change was accepted in the first draft meeting, but of course subject to the actually ballot results and possible change in the second draft.

However as written now, it does apply to inside a garage that has a floor at or below grade.

The one thing that could be used is, while I have seen a number of garages with the floor below grade, I have never seen a garage with a floor at grade. It is always a few inches above grade. My garage floor is a good 8" above the surrounding grade, except for the driveway. However I don't see a driveway installed to provide access to an above grade floor as being the grade for the purposes of this section.
 
W

wwhitney

Senior Member
Location
Berkeley, CA
Occupation
Retired
don_resqcapt19 said:
The word "in" in that section should have been "at" as the rule is only intended to apply to outside locations and not locations within the listed structures.
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The first sentence of 2023 NEC 210.8(F) says ""For dwellings, all outdoor outlets . . ."

So if I have a 1 acre property with a single family home (dwelling unit), a detached garage, and a detached accessory building, how do I determine which outdoor locations are "for" the dwelling unit, and which locations are "at" the detached garage or the detached accessory building?

Say I have a driveway on this property and stick a 50A EVSE on a post next to the driveway, and it's 50' from any of the buildings. Is that EVSE subject to 210.8(F)?

Cheers, Wayne
 
J

jbrown

Member
Also take note of the manufacture's installation requirements. ChargePoint Flex Charge units, for instance, request non-GFCI supply circuits. If local codes require GFCI protection, ChargePoint request hard-wire installations. I personally prefer hard-wired installations anyway which eliminates a potential connection failure point in the 125% rated circuit.
 
C

Coffee Cup

Member
Location
Boston MA
I have always hardwired them and skipped the GFCI. Most of the inspectors in my area are OK with that and even suggest that. in an outdoor installation you not only have the expense of the GFCI breaker but also the 2 gang weatherproof while in use housings (which are not cheap) the charger may or may not have GFCI (Most are) but it isn't live until it is securely fastened to the EV and the diagnostics and handshakes are done between the charger and the EV. I have heard GFCI Breakers with GFCI chargers can cause nuisance tripping, but I have not installed one with a gfci charger.

You would not put an outside HVAC unit on a GFCI, It is an appliance. The appliance has protection measures within it and it is a listed product. Same with a car charger, no voltage is present holding the cord in your hand. This provides that it is working properly, but the design does not have exposed live terminals. When you add the cord and plug chargers that is when the 2020 code requires us to use the GFCI breaker. Short story long. Hardwire it
 
W

wwhitney

Senior Member
Location
Berkeley, CA
Occupation
Retired
Coffee Cup said:
the charger may or may not have GFCI (Most are)
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I've never seen an EVSE with GFCI as the NEC defines it. Again, most EVSEs have CCID20, which has a 20ma trip level, too high to be considered GFCI.

Coffee Cup said:
You would not put an outside HVAC unit on a GFCI, It is an appliance.
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After September 1, 2026, under the 2023 NEC, you absolutely will be required to GFCI protect any outside HVAC unit at a dwelling unit on a 50A or smaller breaker, per 210.8(F). All other outdoor equipment at a dwelling unit on circuits in that size range (other than lighting outlets), including EVSEs, is already required to have GFCI protection.

Cheers, Wayne
 
C

Coffee Cup

Member
Location
Boston MA
Wayne, I am semi retired I think I will fully retire by 2026. That seems excessive, the appliances are Hy-Potted, grounded and otherwise safe. Is there a rise of shock related deaths on outdoor appliances? I doubt it will cause a lot of nuisance trips as GFCI's are pretty reliable, lets hope they dont require arc faults too in 2029.

The EV chargers may have only equipment protection if it is at 20 mA, but it doesn't become active till you plug it in to a car. Again they are approved and listed to be used without a GFCI unless you have the receptacle outlet. I will have to check out the public comment on these articles.
 
C

Coffee Cup

Member
Location
Boston MA
Electrofelon, When you say "Wall Connector" do you mean the receptacle outlet and the short range cord connected to the charger? Then Yes the connector would need GFCI. Tesla (most) chargers can take a 3/4" fitting from the top, back or bottom, so direct wiring with a pipe through the wall to the garage or Driveway negates the need of the GFCI.

Hillbilly and Jagged Ben, the deaths are sad but it seems like the installation is the problem. It is amazing what that ground wire can do when other stuff goes wrong. Do we need GFCI's because of a small percentage of deaths caused by improper wiring. People will still hang extension cords out the window to run the hedge clippers and get electrocuted, how do we stop that? Is the DYI culture and incorrect Youtube videos the bigger issue? Who is to say.
 
H

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
Coffee Cup said:
Electrofelon, When you say "Wall Connector" do you mean the receptacle outlet and the short range cord connected to the charger? Then Yes the connector would need GFCI. Tesla (most) chargers can take a 3/4" fitting from the top, back or bottom, so direct wiring with a pipe through the wall to the garage or Driveway negates the need of the GFCI.

Hillbilly and Jagged Ben, the deaths are sad but it seems like the installation is the problem. It is amazing what that ground wire can do when other stuff goes wrong. Do we need GFCI's because of a small percentage of deaths caused by improper wiring. People will still hang extension cords out the window to run the hedge clippers and get electrocuted, how do we stop that? Is the DYI culture and incorrect Youtube videos the bigger issue? Who is to say.
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That’s why they started requiring gfi protection on garage door opener receptacles, people were plugging extension cords into those, and running them outside.
 
W

wwhitney

Senior Member
Location
Berkeley, CA
Occupation
Retired
Coffee Cup said:
Electrofelon, When you say "Wall Connector" do you mean the receptacle outlet and the short range cord connected to the charger?
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No, "Tesla Wall Connector" is what Tesla calls its EVSE. The current Tesla Wall Connector (version 3, I believe) supports hard-wiring on a 60A circuit to provide 48A continuous to the EV (if its on-board charger is so rated). And putting it on a 60A circuit means that 210.8(F) would not apply.

Cheers, Wayne
 
C

Coffee Cup

Member
Location
Boston MA
Hillbilly, exactly but there is still stupid and it is still done particularly on older houses so these incidents will still happen. You can't put a code requirement for stupidity. Do you think GFCI's on every thing outside will stop electric deaths? I admit it won't hurt and nuisance tripping will happen but generally a listed appliance will be tested and ground leakage should not be an issue, but we know it be a nightmare for the first few years. The finger pointing between the appliance manufacturers and the breaker manufacturers will be fun and the contractor will be stuck working for free to resolve the problems.
 
C

Coffee Cup

Member
Location
Boston MA
Electrofelon, I agree. Same with Charge Point. If the customer wants to be able to take it with them and they want the cord and plug, they are pretty close to being cost effective by abandoning it and buying a new one. Or pay to have it disconnected. I have had this concern with a few rental properties.
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Coffee Cup said:
Hillbilly, exactly but there is still stupid and it is still done particularly on older houses so these incidents will still happen. You can't put a code requirement for stupidity. Do you think GFCI's on every thing outside will stop electric deaths? I admit it won't hurt and nuisance tripping will happen but generally a listed appliance will be tested and ground leakage should not be an issue, but we know it be a nightmare for the first few years. The finger pointing between the appliance manufacturers and the breaker manufacturers will be fun and the contractor will be stuck working for free to resolve the problems.
Click to expand...
The issue is that the current standards for hardwired electrical equipment do not, in general, address leakage current. The assumption on the part of the standards writers is that the code required EGC takes care of leakage current issues on hard wired equipment.
Then in the case of HVAC equipment that has power conversion devices (VFDs) there is high frequency leakage current and the current GFCI product standard only addresses leakage current at 60 hertz.
There is a lot of work to be done by the standard writers, and once they are done, by the manufacturers. Revising a product standard is a long drawn out process, much like the process used for the NEC and takes at least as long as it does to create the next edition of the NEC.
 
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