Hello everyone

[growler]

If HOs knew how much exposure they have doing this sort of deal, they wouldn't do it.

I have been wondering how this sort of thing would be handled myself.

He can legally pull the permit and wire the house so he is really a contractor. In this state a contractor can't sue the homeowner if he is hurt on the job. If he was an unlicensed laborer he could.

This in only side work because he is employed by someone during normal working hours. I think the journeyman ( legal contractor ) would be assuming the risk on his one but I really don't know.

 

[ITO]

Anyone can employ a master electrician to pull a permit for you but that does not make the electrician a contractor.

Does he have a contractor's license?
Does he have a tax ID?
Does he have a DBA?
Does he have any state mandated insurance to be contracting?
Is there a contract or written agreement?

These are just some of the stuff the lawyers will be asking that defines whether or not the electrician is a contractor.

 

[growler]

Anyone can employ a master electrician to pull a permit for you but that does not make the electrician a contractor.

In the state of MA he doesn't have to hire a master to pull a permit he can pull one under his own license and for this reason I think he would be considered a contractor. He will have all the rights of a contractor so I think he will end up with all the same responsibilities as any other contractor.

He really isn't a side worker but a part time contractor. The only person that can have any objections is his boss. As far as the state is concerned he is legal.

 

[ITO]

...He really isn't a side worker but a part time contractor. The only person that can have any objections is his boss. As far as the state is concerned he is legal.

Interesting theory, I would not want to be a HO in court testing it as I pay my lawyer by the hour.

Just because you accept cash for your services, does not make you a contractor.

What laws in MA are there for mandated insurance for contractors?

In Texas all contractors are required to be licensed as such, the line is not so fuzzy here.

 

[iwire]

What laws in MA are there for mandated insurance for contractors?

All I need as far as the licensing end is a Journeyman or Masters license and liability insurance, at that point I can pull permits and run work.

I do not know about any further requirements for the taxes etc. but I imagine there must be.

 

[emahler]

All I need as far as the licensing end is a Journeyman or Masters license and liability insurance, at that point I can pull permits and run work.

I do not know about any further requirements for the taxes etc. but I imagine there must be.

the bold words are pretty important...

and as an aside, if the OP does this job for $1 less than his current boss would charge, he is part of the problem..his boss already doesn't charge enough to pay the OP the wage he wants...so he better not undercut him...

 

[iwire]

the bold words are pretty important...

In MA you must have liability insurance to pull a permit, but last I knew it was only $300,000.00 required.

The other option is the customer can sign a waiver of that insurance, I personally can't see asking a paying customer to even consider that.

 

[ITO]

The point I was trying to make, is that most Home Owners looking for a "deal" are only interested in the price and may not realize how much exposure they have doing this. There is a lot to be said for making sure whomever you hire to work in your home is a legitimate business with all the instruments that should be in place to protect their own best interest, but sadly sometimes people have to learn lessons the hard way.

 

[iwire]

There is a lot to be said for making sure whomever you hire to work in your home is a legitimate business with all the instruments that should be in place to protect their own best interest, but sadly sometimes people have to learn lessons the hard way.

I agree, but at the same time many more times they do get a deal and they have no problems. The truth is even when people hire 'legitimate' contractors there can be trouble.

The few times I have hired people to work at my house they have been 'legitimate' contractors and I asked to see proof of insurance, workers comp etc.

 

[electricmanscott]

In my humble very idiotic and stupid opinion, all residential work, (other than developments and condo buildings etc) should be classified as side work.

You are correct on two points here. Which ones? Your opinion is very idiotic and stupid. If you were serious disregard my smile and insert

 

[jrannis]

OK back to the origional question.
I can tell that the person wanting the work done is someone that is being a bit cautious about the work and doesn?t want to get screwed.
1. Start out understanding that you need to net about $1000 per day, any less than that, you are part of the problem.
2. If its going to take you four days to rough the house, 4 grand. Get paid at the end of the rough. Best case is to get paid one or two grand up front, then the balance when you are done with that portion.
3. Next part is the trim out. How many days? Three? Three grand. Changes?
4. $90to $120 per hour will cover your grand per day goal.
If they want to do it, great.
I would not consider working for any less in your area.

 

[dnem]

If HOs knew how much exposure they have doing this sort of deal, they wouldn't do it.

The guy next door to me hired a kid from the neighborhood to mow his lawn, who then proceeded to trip over a garden hose and break his wrist. His parents and their layer worked his insurance over until it was gone then went after him on a work comp claim.

The scary part is, this same kid used to mow my lawn too.

All of the comments about liability are certainly legit and I hope dSilanskas gets the necessary insurance and handles himself ethically in all ways but, to be totally honest, damage can be inflicted by anybody.

Does he have a contractor's license?
Does he have a tax ID?
Does he have a DBA?
Does he have any state mandated insurance to be contracting?
Is there a contract or written agreement?

I've been screwed by general contractors that had years of experience, licensed, tax ID, DBA, insured, contract. . I've been to court with lawyers and found out the hard way how many run their scam. . I've been on the losing end of the "shell game" and lost many times more than the price of dSilanskas job.

Anybody can screw the homeowner. . Anybody can slap on a bogus lien that takes money to fight. . Anybody can not pay the insurance and let it lapse. . Anybody can skip out on the subs and leave the homeowner with a lien on his house.

Anybody can screw the small contractor . Anybody can play the multicompany "shell game" and plot to have all of the subs contracted to the company that is "suddenly" and "unexplainably" broke and bankrupt while the general drives off the continue on with the other big money companies in his shell game group.

The story of the broken wrist lawn mower is completely disgusting. . But the level of damage is "kids play" compared to what is being done to the honest small business man everyday. . The small business man is the backbone of this country and gets screwed daily. . His losses can be staggering.

Everybody starts small with their first house just like dSilanskas. . It's not about how large or small you are. . It's about your ethics. . It's about doing the right thing.

I don't dispute that the kid mowing lawns or the "one man band" electrician just starting out can screw you. . But I'm honestly not that worried. . I've taken the big hit and I know now who I should really worry about.

David

 

[dnem]

1. Start out understanding that you need to net about $1000 per day, any less than that, you are part of the problem.

Wow ! . I need to get back into contracting !

 

[satcom]

Wow ! . I need to get back into contracting !

Sounds great until you find that 90% of that is overhead, and operating costs, your lucky to to keep $20 out of a grand.

 

[emahler]

Sounds great until you find that 90% of that is overhead, and operating costs, your lucky to to keep $20 out of a grand.

ironically, practical math is frowned on by this industry....

 

[ITO]

... I've taken the big hit and I know now who I should really worry about.

David

Agreed GCs are the master a screwing the customers and the subs but they have also learned the hard way to do everything they can to manage their exposure, and the fact of the matter is there are some simple protections a legitimate contractor brings to the table that are sometimes overlooked because that guy doing side work is so cheap.

If you invited someone into your home to do work that is not insured you have considerable exposure, as apposed to hiring a bonded contractor.

If the side work guy slips in your kitchen and busts his head, guess who?s insurance pays for the medical bills? Yours.

Same scenario, only this time it?s a bonded contractor; after busting his head he files a work comp claim on his own insurance.

If a side work guy burns your house down, you get to file on your own insurance, if a bonded contractor burns your house down his insurance pays for the damage.

 

[Rewire]

If a side work guy burns your house down, you get to file on your own insurance, if

If you are in an area that requires a permit be pulled and the side guy doesn't do it then your insurance can refuse to pay.

 

[ITO]

If a side work guy burns your house down, you get to file on your own insurance, if

If you are in an area that requires a permit be pulled and the side guy doesn't do it then your insurance can refuse to pay.

Oh yeah there is some major exposure created by the home owner all in an effort to save a buck.

 

[satcom]

Oh yeah there is some major exposure created by the home owner all in an effort to save a buck.

Not the same in all states, and not the same with different insurance companies, some pay, some fight it, the stock insurance companies may fight it, a lot of them have clauses in their policies that underwriting is dependent on following all building codes, and obtaining permits where required, or language to that effect, a lot of the mutual companies don't have any restrictions and just pay out claims, I can remember thru the years insurance investigators comming to fire company, looking for records, and we would direct them to the city attorney office. So when you work on the side, you better make sure your well covered, if the liability comes back on you, you may be facing some big probation payments if you loose the case.

Most don't look at the tragic side, they feel it will not be them that it happens to. Well check on the facts and you may change your thinking.

Many times the homeowners policy pays, then their insurance company goes after mr side job for the loss recovery.

 

[marissa2]

Didn't someone from Mass not to long ago post a copy of a Mass permit about this same subject on insurance. And on the permit there was a line that the homeowner could sign off about knowing that the person doing the work doesn't have the required insurance. I printed the copy myself but I din't have anymore.
Lou