Help with Master Electrical Price List

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Eli1211

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Wisconsin
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Electrician
I am a new electrical contractor. Currently, I do residential/commercial service work and I have an account with a small home remodeling contractor. By far and large I charge hourly. If I do give a bid, I do it based off of my hourly rate, material cost, etc..I recently had a meeting with an individual who owns both a remodeling/restoration construction LLC and then he also owns another property management LLC, which has 300+ properties. He is already partnered with two other electrical contractors and is looking for third. He has asked me to fill out an "Electrical Master Price List". It is alot. For some of the items, I already know what I would charge. For others, I am at a loss. Any help would be appreciated. Whether, you can share your price list, unsure if that is ok to ask, I have read people spend years building their lists. Or simply a process on how come up with a price for an item. Or maybe recommend a computer software that could help with this. I have read other posts on here pertinent to what I am asking, but nothing that can help specifically. Thanks in advance for any responses.
 

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You’ll have to build assemblies for each item and price them. A receptacle assembly would be box, wire, staples, drill holes, connectors, receptacle, wall plate, etc....


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NECA manual of labor units would help you, once you know your hourly with OH costs you plug that into the labor units for each item. Just be careful, you need to know the entire process as each step is counted separately as suggested by #brantmacga, if you forget a step or item or if its calculated wrong you can loose your shirt on a bid. If you unfamiliar with what it would take and you want to price it calculate high. I suggest you get a manual and cross check yourself on jobs you've already done and see how close you come, I'll do that every so often just to check if I'm pricing competitively with myself for the time its taking to do a job. Most if my work is T&M.
 
480sparky said:
I'd run like he11. You'll only get beat up with you provide a shopping list of prices like that.
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I've had a corporate GC that would give a list like that but it was backwards, GC dictates what he will pay you X for Y or Z, mostly when I've come across those it definitely was run away, you loose everytime.
 
I may just tell him I would be willing to do work for him as T&M. Worst he says is no, and I continue to look for companies that are more in line with the way I typically charge. Or perhaps, that I would be willing to submit a bid for each project he would like me to do, but not provide an all encompassing master price list that I would be held to for any given situation.
 
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480sparky said:
I'd run like he11. You'll only get beat up with you provide a shopping list of prices like that.
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I don’t disagree, but will add this is typical of large production home builders as I’ve been told by other EC’s. We have one such company here in town (I haven’t worked for them) that requires their subs to price this way. My understanding is that it helps them in budgeting with their clients.


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brantmacga said:
I don’t disagree, but will add this is typical of large production home builders as I’ve been told by other EC’s. We have one such company here in town (I haven’t worked for them) that requires their subs to price this way. My understanding is that it helps them in budgeting with their clients.


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Also makes it easier for them to finalize the deal if a few extras are added in that they already have the price for. Way easier than calling the EC for each option.

I had a dock builder that kept trying to get me to give him an average price per pedestal so he could give "budget" numbers w/out bothering me. I knew this guy would sell the project w/out consoluting me and then expect me to do it because I gave him the average number he used. I never would give him that number.

I guess if the numbers are high enough you won't get hurt, but I hate to let someone else calculate my contracts.
 
Eli1211 said:
...but not provide an all encompassing master price list that I would be held to for any given situation.
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Well for one, it's not a legally binding contract, now is it? ;) As long as you don't sign anything. Your price could change from what you list on that document. Just some food for thought. He could also just be shopping for prices and never intend to actually use you.

The few GC's that I've worked for still haggled me even after I gave them a good price lower than what I would normally charge, and I always had to fight to get paid. I'm of the biased opinion that GC's are parasites, lol.

On really big jobs, one could argue you need someone to manage the flow of the work and various trades... but most of the individual items on that list don't require a GC, IMO. You're just giving up a slice of your pie for things like service upgrades and bathroom exhaust fans as stand-alone projects. The question is, is that slice worth giving up for expected increase in work?
 
brantmacga said:
I don’t disagree, but will add this is typical of large production home builders as I’ve been told by other EC’s. We have one such company here in town (I haven’t worked for them) that requires their subs to price this way. My understanding is that it helps them in budgeting with their clients.


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That just means they're shopping prices.
 
Eli1211 said:
Or simply a process on how come up with a price for an item.
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My basic formula is:

Time + Material + (O/P% or % of Time and Material Total, i.e. Gross Profit Margin) + Administrative Fees (e.g. Licensing and Permit Costs, etc.)

Time. Figure out what you want to take home hourly as if you were a laborer taking home a paycheck, but account for the fact that you're a trained in a specialized trade and have to be the supervisor and the installer. There are government statistics available for your usage.

Material. It is what it is, unless you shop around and find lower prices and/or can get bulk pricing.

O/P%. Your GROSS profit margin should include your overhead costs and after those are paid, leave you with a NET profit margin that's reasonable. Generally speaking, a 10% NET is considered low, a 20% NET is considered fair, a 30% NET is considered good... but some companies get away with a lot more.

Administrative Fees. I charge separately for these items that I don't think should part of the markup, but some may disagree with me here.

Ultimately, an "Opening" or "Line Item" cost as detailed in that sheet are still Time and Material based, just less open-ended than charging what is conventionally referred to as "Time and Material." I provide "Opening Costs" in what I explicitly refer to as an "Estimate," which is not as legally binding as a "Quote." I also specify in my contract terms that the price is not fixed and may decrease/increase, but that I agree to consult the customer if that were to occur before proceeding.
 
Yeah, he recently emailed me back and stated he pays his electrical sub contractors $65 hourly. I can't even believe he is finding electrical contractors willing to work for less than $90 an hour around here. More power to him I guess. Not this guy though. Again, I appreciate all of the info/advice. Maybe ya'll do maybe ya'll don't know, but as a new contractor, and an electrician with a lot to learn yet, this site is invaluable.
 
Eli1211 said:
Yeah, he recently emailed me back and stated he pays his electrical sub contractors $65 hourly. I can't even believe he is finding electrical contractors willing to work for less than $90 an hour around here. More power to him I guess. Not this guy though. Again, I appreciate all of the info/advice. Maybe ya'll do maybe ya'll don't know, but as a new contractor, and an electrician with a lot to learn yet, this site is invaluable.
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$65/hr ain't bad if it's LABOR ONLY.

If it's an all inclusive number, it's a little low. I know guys around here that charge $65.00 for a single, general purpose receptacle in new construction and that's all inclusive including their overhead. And dude knows his stuff.

That's the thing. Some people treat units of labor as "all inclusive" (i.e. overhead included) and some people, like myself, prefer to keep labor and overhead as separate categories.

If he's covering the cost of materials and everything else that would normally be your overhead, then that's right in line some of the higher government statistics for higher paying areas. Chicago area sparkys, which is one of the higher paying areas, according to government statistics, take home about an average of $55/hr last I checked, but that doesn't include their medical, retirement, tools, etc. etc.
 
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It's important to get paid what you're worth... but on the flip side, don't price yourself out of a job either.

If a single receptacle takes you about an hour @ $65.00/hr... and you add materials and profit margin to that $65.00... you're going to be right up there with market averages around $150 an opening.

I guarantee you that $90/hr isn't just take home pay. It's an all inclusive number and it's on the low end if it is. You gotta learn the difference between labor as a measure of time and labor as an all inclusive unit. They are two very different things.
 
He could also be low-balling you. Doesn't hurt to try and negotiate. Just don't sign anything in haste.
 
I admit I still have a lot to learn, but $65 an hour however you cut it seems very low. For instance, I pay myself $40 an hour, my health insurance w/two kids is $1400 monthly, I set aside 30% for taxes to ensure I am good, $72 a month for work van insurance, and $400 a month for gas. Bare essentials. This does not include advertising costs, tools, van/truck payment, vehicle repairs, money to reinvest back into the business, etc...Just for the things I have to pay for, I need to charge at least $74 hourly.
 
Eli1211 said:
I admit I still have a lot to learn, but $65 an hour however you cut it seems very low. For instance, I pay myself $40 an hour, my health insurance w/two kids is $1400 monthly, I set aside 30% for taxes to ensure I am good, $72 a month for work van insurance, and $400 a month for gas. Bare essentials. This does not include advertising costs, tools, van/truck payment, vehicle repairs, money to reinvest back into the business, etc...Just for the things I have to pay for, I need to charge at least $74 hourly.
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Very low? $65.00/hr x 7hrs/day x 20days/month x 12months is over $100k/year. How is that very low exactly?
Again, there's a difference between (1) labor as a measure of time / straight take home pay... and (2) labor as an all inclusive unit.

As an all inclusive unit, yes.. $65.00/hr is on the low end. As straight take home pay? $100k/yr is pretty good in my book.
 
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